Jupitus On Torture Porn

I was listening to the Phil Jupitus podcast earlier today and he mentioned how he was flicking through Sky Movies the other day, and lingered on Hostel for a while. He talked about the scene where there was a man in a dinner suit with a knife and fork tucking into a conscious girl's leg, and he thought "You know what, f**k this", and switched channel.
He was making the point that as he gets older (and also having kids comes into the equation), he's finding gratuitous screen violence less and less palatable.

Anyway, it struck a chord with me. I think I'm with Phil on this one. The older I get, the less tolerant I am to human suffering - real or fictitious.

In the seventies and early eighties we had "video nasties" like Driller Killer and Cannibal Ferox and The Evil Dead, that were eventually banned for many years. Now they've been re-released into the mainstream they've been supplanted by modern stuff that makes them look like the Teletubbies.

So my question is, what's your stance on this modern crop of horror movies? I'm talking specifically about the hyper-violent torture porn movies like Hostel, Saw, Devil's Rejects etc, that delight in showing extremely-realistic torture scenes for our entertainment.

Unless they're ACTUALLY torturing my ex-wife I'm not really interested. I have her address if anyone's considering it. It's all free as long as I can watch.

Quote: roscoff @ April 16 2009, 1:05 AM BST

Unless they're ACTUALLY torturing my ex-wife I'm not really interested. I have her address if anyone's considering it. It's all free as long as I can watch.

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I feel your pain brother

In actually answering the question (a rare departure for me) I have never (ever) liked horror movies. The only movie of that genre I've ever enjoyed was The Omen. That's all folks!

My main response is the little I've seen of them bored me. Hostel was just nasty stuff happening with so little context, it wasn't much more than an exitable kid shouting boo alot.

Thing is these films, along with internet porn are beginning to have a corrosive effect. And increasing evidence that they certainly affect how kids think.

I'm completely anticensorship but even I'm wandering is there a limit?

It's not the 'torture porn' aspect of modern horror I find distasteful, it's the lack of imagination and good screenwriting. For me, a good horror, has to be frightening, suspenseful and I have to care about the characters.

The question you've posed Lee, is of a highly subjective artistic nature. I could say that Passion of the Christ is 'torture porn' as it features some of the most gratuitous and realistically portrayed violence I've ever seen in a movie. Though others would argue that it is not, I still found it much more disturbing then Hostel.

My final answer - if a horror film (or any other film) is really well crafted and features scenes of an extreme nature, then I would like to see it as the director intended. If the film is trash, then I will avoid it.

Quote: roscoff @ April 16 2009, 1:15 AM BST

I have never (ever) liked horror movies.

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Quote: Lee Henman @ April 16 2009, 12:57 AM BST

I was listening to the Phil Jupitus podcast earlier today and he mentioned how he was flicking through Sky Movies the other day, and lingered on Hostel for a while. He talked about the scene where there was a man in a dinner suit with a knife and fork tucking into a conscious girl's leg, and he thought "You know what, f**k this", and switched channel.
He was making the point that as he gets older (and also having kids comes into the equation), he's finding gratuitous screen violence less and less palatable.

Anyway, it struck a chord with me. I think I'm with Phil on this one. The older I get, the less tolerant I am to human suffering - real or fictitious.

In the seventies and early eighties we had "video nasties" like Driller Killer and Cannibal Ferox and The Evil Dead, that were eventually banned for many years. Now they've been re-released into the mainstream they've been supplanted by modern stuff that makes them look like the Teletubbies.

So my question is, what's your stance on this modern crop of horror movies? I'm talking specifically about the hyper-violent torture porn movies like Hostel, Saw, Devil's Rejects etc, that delight in showing extremely-realistic torture scenes for our entertainment.

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You know, I don't consider those last movies horror movies. They are fetish movies. A horror movie needs suspense, surprises, and hope. There needs to be some sort of hope that a character might make it and the audience needs to be involved with the character.
By way of explanation, I cite Quint's speech in "JAWS". He says that he was most afraid when he had a chance of rescue. There has to be that look out behind you moment. Like what happened to Harry Dean Stanton's character in "Alien". You see the cat looking past him, you see the Alien, and then you see him realize it as he turns around, slowly. Perfect example. Or the Shape sitting up behind Laurie in "Halloween" (1978). Or the Zombie sneaking up on Roger when his leg is hanging out of the truck "DOTD" (1978).
The bulk of my favourite horrors come from the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The ones from the 1970s seemed the most haunting. Don't Look Now, Burnt Offerings, The Omen, Legend Of Hell House.
Oh and super scary - that doll from Trilogy of Terror. Looked like a two legged piranha.

Quote: roscoff @ April 16 2009, 1:15 AM BST

I have never (ever) liked horror movies. The only movie of that genre I've ever enjoyed was The Omen.

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I have never (ever) liked Western movies. The only movie of that genre I've ever enjoyed was Gunfight at the OK Corral.

I'm not in to the torture porn films either. They're just for teenage girls to scare themselves to, right?

I do like a good Zombie flick though.

The whole horror genre is to me a total load of toot. I have never watched any at all. I just don't see the point. I'd much rather laugh than be frightened or repulsed.

This is a general reply about the subject matter itself. I find the term 'torture porn' very derogatory to be honest. It was coined by a film critic who basically turned his nose up at anything horror related that ventured further than mainstream bland. In essense the type of films refered to are essentially a revival of the old grindhouse splatter flicks. Like their older cousins, this particular genre area that include films like Hostel, Wolf Creek, Touristas et al, are not for everyone and can indeed show scenes that are disturbing or even distasteful. But that is what horror is all about. It is there to frighten, to disturb, to unnerve, to thrill. It is there to bring out various emotions in the viewer.

There are many genres of horror and they do not all appeal to everyone. Seeing someone being tortured may not be everyones cup of tea but I would argue it is no worse than watching a werewolf rip out someones throat, or a zombie chew on someones arm, a serial killer repeatedly stab their victim - or any other facet of death that is shown in any genre stream of horror. If someone doesn't like these particular types of film that is fine. Simply do not watch them. But to suggest that there is something wrong with these films is, in my opinion, wrong in itself. It merely does not agree with you as a film type.

Like all genres there are good films and bad films. Hostel did well and struck a chord. Because of this it had many rip offs and copy cat derivatives. I actually found the set up of Hostel itself rather scary. Having travelled in Eastern Europe I have seen first hand how attractive young women go up to guys to entice them. Usually the girls are paid by local pubs and clubs to bring in punters so that they can sell alcohol. The girls often get the punters to buy them drinks too thus increasing the punters bar bill. The film Hostel just took this further but I actually found the enticing scarier than the torture. SAW is another film that can get a bad rep. The first film was actually quite clever in its setup. On casual viewing the sequels seem inferior but watch them all back to back and you will notice how intricate the plots and interlacing are.

Am I a big fan of this so called 'torture porn'? Not hugely. I like a few of them but dislike many more. Although I like Hostel and the SAW movies, I thought Hostel Part 2 was boring and repetitive, Devils Rejects rather bland and coma inducing, Tourista's a bandwagon snooze fest and Wolf Creek fairly derivative. There are many more; some of which are ok, some bland and some I havent seen yet.

There is also the cross over between the Torture genre and the Home Invasion genre. I see that these sometimes get banded together under the 'torture porn' label. Here we are talking about films like Ils (aka Them), A l'interieur (aka Inside), The Strangers, Eden Lake, Haute Tension etc. The emphasis here is people invading the homes of victims to reek death or carnage but because it can sometimes include extreme violence it all gets classed the same.

At the end of the day I would say to anyone, watch what you want and like or dislike it at your pleasure, but please try not to make out that a genre is wrong just because it does not appeal to you. There are a number of genres in horror I don't like much. Slashers simply do not appeal to me. Neither do Cannibal flicks, Rape Revenge or Exploitation. Heck, I actually dislike a lot of the Torture films. Horror is a huge encompasing banner and I think it's good that many genres thrive within it. I may not like them all but I respect that other people do. The reason for this reply was to point out that I feel the 'torture porn' label is not entirely fair as it exists to group together a mass of film titles under a sweeping negative banner. I find this unfair and I truly believe that a film should stand or fall on it's own individual merits.

Def.

I went to see Saw but didn't see what people saw in it.

I don't mind Torture Porn, if you want to call it that. I enjoyed Wolf Creek and Eden Lake, and the Hostel movies were okay, although I bit tedious at times since you spend most of the film thinking, "I wish they'd hurry up and start torturing people." And the early Saw films were quite inventive.

And at the end of the day, all this is very faddy. In fact, I get the impression that the Torture Porn bubble has already burst and we'll be onto the next horror fad soon.

Quote: Ben @ April 16 2009, 8:38 AM BST

I'm not in to the torture porn films either. They're just for teenage girls to scare themselves to, right?

I do like a good Zombie flick though.

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Me too. I like horror films - it's specifically the ones that centre on torture that worry me. As Sooty says - it concerns me that kids especially are watching this grotesque cruelty and are becoming desensitized to truly harrowing images of screaming people being tortured in the most unimaginable way.

What I fear most is the last taboo is now being broken - depicting the simulated torture and murder of children onscreen. As a general rule when a child had to die in a movie, the camera has always cut away or suggested the act. Now we're getting movies actually showing it. The latest Rambo movie had a scene where a screaming child of 7 or 8 was punched to the floor by a soldier, had his head stepped on and then a bayonet thrust in his belly, all in glorious Stallone-O-Vision close-up. It was disgusting.

I know I do bang on about this kind of thing quite often but I do think it's a genuine concern.