Gay Jokes/Characters In Comedy Page 2

Its similar to the arguement started by Alf Garnett. Warren Mitchell used to say people would come up to him saying "I love that Alf- he's dead right, send 'em all back", to which Mitchell would reply "Actually its people like you we're taking the piss out of".

All well and good and very noble, but if the general public miss the point and run with the wrong idea, then damage is done.

The gay war reporter doesn't really come out with any jokes- he is just a (fairly realistic) very effeminate man andthat's supposed to be what we should laugh at, and that surely IS homophobic. The gay Nazi is a cartoon, but its not parodying a style of comedy like Reeves & Mortimer did on occasion, Al Murray is serving this up as a comic character and we're supposed to laugh at it in its own right. Its clumsy, the jokes are feeble and its just rubbish. Its not overly offensive, just crap.

Is it just that straight men, acting the role of a gay man, become offensive? Eric McCormack showed that's not necessarily the case, and straight men can write camp comedy as Barry Took & co showed.

But with Will and Grace, its interesting that they didn't use a straight actor for the character of Jack-that's the line and I think that's where Matt Horne, James Corden and Al Murray get it horribly wrong. The 'stereotypical' Jew seen in comedy is performed by a Jew- if a gentile did it what would the reaction be?

I think the only criticism is that you often see the same type of gay person portrayed. The over-camp gay. But then again there are many gay people who act like that so while its not a fair representation of all gays its still a reflection on people that do exist.

In sitcoms you try and find extremes so you'll rarely see a toned down character. Who isn't played-up in Little Britain and Al Murray? Although, Little Britain was quite original with its Only Gay premise. He wasn't gay.

You do see people like that, its true. And there's a case for having characters like that on telly- its a diverse world. The problem is if you take a sterotype and stick it on telly as just something to point at and laugh at it becomes uncomfortable.

The gay theatre director featured in Extras was funny because he was married- the joke being that he was the last person to have a wife and family. He also had funny lines and funny set ups. The character was justified.

There was a brilliant exchange in Corrie a while back- in the factory Shaun said something catty and camp, to which Sally Webster said:
"Shaun! You're acting like a stereotypical gay man!" he then replied "But I am a stereotypical gay man.."

Mitchel and Webb did a sketch about a gay couple - Ice Cream maker and a paediatrician that was the first example of gay couple being played just as a couple in a sketch show that I can remember.

btw...

having gay friends does not qualify opinions on homosexuality.

Quote: thefridaylink @ March 30 2009, 11:07 AM BST

having gay friends does not qualify opinions on homosexuality.

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That's not what my mate Queer Jim says...

Quote: Maurice Minor @ March 30 2009, 10:43 AM BST

The gay theatre director featured in Extras was funny because he was married- the joke being that he was the last person to have a wife and family. He also had funny lines and funny set ups. The character was justified.

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Also his homosexuality didn't define him. It was just a part of his character.

Quote: thefridaylink @ March 30 2009, 11:07 AM BST

having gay friends does not qualify opinions on homosexuality.

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That's true, you don't need to know any gay people to have an opinion on homosexuality.

Ted and Ralph, that's how to write gay characters in a sketch show.

Quote: Martin H @ March 30 2009, 11:50 AM BST

Ted and Ralph, that's how to write gay characters in a sketch show.

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Spot on!

Was Ted gay though? More 'confused', I'd have said.

Dan

Quote: sootyj @ March 30 2009, 10:15 AM BST

Jack from Will and Grace is also camp but still human.

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Yeah I was going to bring Jack up, he's portrayed as camp and is funny for it but Will is portrayed as gay but not camp and so the situations between them made for some great comedy but I don't think it was wrong portrayal or anything.

Agree with Lee re: stereotypes. Stereotypes didn't originate out of nowhere without the smallest basis for their development. How could a stereotype even begin if people hadn't met enough tight Scots or rugby-playing, choir-singing Welsh to recognise and react to those generalisations? The problem is that they are crude approximations or distortions of a few select characteristics of a general population, which are then applied wholesale to that society, without regard for individuals.

In fiction, although a stereotype can give your audience a quick handle on a 'bit player,' and even imply a certain backstory, it has to be handled well. The character must have something that breaks the mould, to make them stand apart from yet another tired trundling out of the 'gay' or the 'bible-basher' or the '**supply your own here**.' Stereotyping in lead characters would be a big no-no.

Disagree with Lee re: the idea that camp gay characters are inherently funny. Imo, the only thing inherently funny in comedy writing is the writer, not the material he chooses to work with.

Quote: SlagA @ March 30 2009, 1:02 PM BST

Agree with Lee re: stereotypes. Stereotypes didn't originate out of nowhere without the smallest basis for their development.

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Mr Slagg you are beginning to worry me a tad. Jews are usually protrayed as mean and tight with money as during the middle ages thanks to church law forbidding Christians to lend money, the only money lenders were Jewish. Blacks being viewed as subhuman grew out of slavery and how they were treated as property e.g. as subhuman.

Behind most prejudiced statements is a legatimised history of hatred and prejudice.

Soots, am I the kind of man to champion stereotypes and everything that has been associated with them, through history? No, Sir.

Worry not. I wasn't agreeing with the idea, just making the observation that a stereotype doesn't arise out-of-the-blue, in complete isolation from the group it is attached to. There is always a reason or cause for its development that is then amplified by encountering the trait (even in some minor way).

If a completely random stereotype was thrown up, it would die pretty quickly if it wasn't getting some 'confirmation' from contact with the group it was associated with. For example, the Jewish one has a natural and innocent origin that was distorted (and sadly, still is) for political / religious gain. But it is perfectly understandable how Jews came to be historically associated with money and lending. However, what people then do with said stereotypes is often unspeakable.

Do I think all stereotypes are bad when applied to people? Almost always yes. I don't say 100% yes as I've had good and bad experiences from being treated as a Welsh stereotype.

Do I think they're bad in fiction? Depends on the writer, but often it's a yes.

Quote: thefridaylink @ March 30 2009, 11:07 AM BST

Mitchel and Webb did a sketch about a gay couple - Ice Cream maker and a paediatrician that was the first example of gay couple being played just as a couple in a sketch show that I can remember.

btw...

having gay friends does not qualify opinions on homosexuality.

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And that Mitchell and Webb sketch is one of the funniest things I've seen recently. By making them a mutually bitchy couple (harder to do with hetro couples) and jetisoning all that dreary campery you're left with a very funny sketch. The one on Scooby Doo is just ingenious.

N.B. Slagg you've cleared up my issue, thanks.

Quote: SlagA @ March 30 2009, 1:02 PM BST

Disagree with Lee re: the idea that camp gay characters are inherently funny. Imo, the only thing inherently funny in comedy writing is the writer, not the material he chooses to work with.

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Fair enough. But the truth is, audiences do laugh at screamingly-camp characters.

Mr Humphries
Will And Grace's Jack
Constable Goody
Sean Tully
Dafydd

Whether it's morally right or not to laugh is another question. But laugh they do.