Quote: Aaron @ March 27 2009, 4:50 PM GMTDitto. I'll do anything to avoid someone sat next to me. They'll almost always stink of garlic. However, if it's busy and someone does wish to sit down next to me, I'll move my bag (and normally coat).
So denying a seat in a situation where there's NO ALTERNATIVE but to stand, is not worse than denying two seats to two people who could easily find another place to go?
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 1:06 PM GMTAnd I'm with Lee on the bag-on-seat thing. Until the train is getting busy, my bag is riding in comfort.
The fact is people who'll chat to strangers ruin the day for people who just want to be left alone.
I avoid awkward chat as I'm generally watching some decades-old sitcom on my media player. Recently has been the incredibly bleak The Cuckoo Waltz, interspersed with In Loving Memory. But that's another incredibly sad discussion altogether.
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 4:29 PM GMTNot everyone, that's just a generalisation.
What's worse than being imprisoned? Being imprisoned in solitary confinement.
Some people just aren't very good at interacting with other humans. There's not much we can do about it, but you'll have a hard time convincing most people that asking a stranger for a seat is an unpardonable offense.
Humans have a knack for adjusting their behavior to match the circumstances. Had you been sobbing with your head in your hands, I doubt the elderly couple would have bothered you. Had you invited them to be seated and then turned away and engaged in conversation with your friend, they would have kept to themselves. Had you chatted them up, they would have reciprocated.
There's really no way to avoid these incidents unless you make yourself seem unapproachable by being smelly, scary or crazy.
Quote: DaButt @ March 27 2009, 4:53 PM GMTWhat's worse than being imprisoned? Being imprisoned in solitary confinement.
Some people just aren't very good at interacting with other humans. There's not much we can do about it, but you'll have a hard time convincing most people that asking a stranger for a seat is an unpardonable offense.
Humans have a knack for adjusting their behavior to match the circumstances. Had you been sobbing with your head in your hands, I doubt the elderly couple would have bothered you. Had you invited them to be seated and then turned away and engaged in conversation with your friend, they would have kept to themselves. Had you chatted them up, they would have reciprocated.
There's really no way to avoid these incidents unless you make yourself seem unapproachable by being smelly, scary or crazy.
It's not about not be able to interact, it's choosing not to.
And sadly I'm none of smell, scary or crazy.
Quote: Graham Bandage @ March 27 2009, 1:28 PM GMTI'm going to tell you a little story.
A couple of years ago, I got on the bus. Now I looked down the aisle and every window seat was taken, so I realised I was going to have to sit next to somebody.
So I surveyed the scene. There was a nice late middle-aged woman about halfway down the bus, so I decided she was the best bet. Approximately eight seconds after I sat down, she put on a baseball cap.
Now, given that the only people allowed to wear baseball caps are baseball players and kids who will soon be off to Orlando to swim with the dolphins, I realised I had chosen wrongly.
She didn't prove me wrong. She sneezed, without covering her mouth, sending a green glowing globule crashing into the back of the head of the man in front.
She blushed, and belmed, "Excuse me." And I realised I'd misjudged the situation. She wasn't a loon, she had learning difficulties, and I felt a bit bad.
But she was saying, "Excuse me," so that I would stand up and she could leave the bus. So I did and she left. And I thought, "Great! A seat to myself." So I sat down, and put my hand on the seat to shuffle across to the promised land of the window.
Is anybody familiar with the condition stress incontinence? Apparently, sneezing is very bad for it.
Now. There I was, with a wee-wee hand and a small puddle of wee-wee next to me. What was I to do? Should I stand up? No, because somebody would sit in it. So I stayed on the aisle seat, acting as a big piss barrier.
But now the bus was filling up. And it was standing room only, apart from the seat next to me. I wasn't going to volunteer the information that I'd just dipped my palm in a mentally-handicapped woman's urine, but was happy to explain if anybody asked me.
Nobody did. Because we were all British. They just looked daggers at me because I was sitting in the aisle seat and not shoving up.
That - THAT! - is the only excuse anybody should ever have not to allow a fellow passenger or diner to sit down. Seefacts and Lee, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
That's fabulous.
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 3:58 PM GMTHow am I (sitting in peace, minding my own business, NOT irritating anyone) be worse than someone who sticks their hooter in and annoys innocent people?
Hooter sticking is almost always bad, inherently. What you did was only rude given the exact situation.
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 3:58 PM GMTPeople say up north you'll get talked to at the bus stop, but down south you don't. Well, I'm glad I'm based south (more or less) then.
Agreed.
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 4:47 PM GMTHow is basic intimidation worse than rudeness out of interest?
I didn't say anything about intimidation. Only asked if you would have treated me in the same disrespectful way. I'm guessing you treated the elderly people in the way that you did, because you knew they would just walk away - thus making you the victor. You took on an easy fight, a fight, in fact, you knew you couldn't lose. This incident really makes you look like a immature, ignorant, conceited bully.
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 4:50 PM GMTIn my defence, it was a tight table of five. And I thought you'd be on my side Aaron? Would you like strangers sat very close whilst eating??
I wouldn't like it, no. But, again depending on the exact details of the situation, I wouldn't necessarily object. Perhaps I'd agree with you if I saw the exact size of the table. *shrug*
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 4:52 PM GMTSo denying a seat in a situation where there's NO ALTERNATIVE but to stand, is not worse than denying two seats to two people who could easily find another place to go?
Did you actually read what you quoted? "However, if it's busy and someone does wish to sit down next to me, I'll move my bag."
Quote: don rushmore @ March 27 2009, 5:03 PM GMTI didn't say anything about intimidation. Only asked if you would have treated me in the same disrespectful way. I'm guessing you treated the elderly people in the way that you did, because you knew they would just walk away - thus making you the victor. You took on an easy fight, a fight, in fact, you knew you couldn't lose. This incident really makes you look like a immature, ignorant, conceited bully.
Not really, no. But I believe anyone under 40 wouldn't have asked to sit at the table.
And you talk of victories, but you are taking delight in the idea that I'd let you sit down because you look a bit hard.
It's not a fight either, as I said. I was asked if I'd mind if they joined us. 'Yes, I would' was the response. But again, this isn't the point. It's more about how others would react.
So to reiterate, I'm not saying what I did was right, I'm just interested to know what others would do. So calm down, Joe Calzaghe.
Quote: Aaron @ March 27 2009, 5:05 PM GMTI wouldn't like it, no. But, again depending on the exact details of the situation, I wouldn't necessarily object. Perhaps I'd agree with you if I saw the exact size of the table. *shrug*
Did you actually read what you quoted? "However, if it's busy and someone does wish to sit down next to me, I'll move my bag."
AGHH, I've made Aaron angry!!
F**k!!
Anyway, enough of this nonsense. It's all got out of hand, and it's not quite the discussion of social etiquette I envisaged.
Mark and I actually sat at a table on Wednesday where a woman had already placed her tray of food (it was only McDonald's). It was a 4-person bench, and she was obviously on her own. It was a very small McDonald's, seating for I guess 20 at most, and she was one of a crowd of people helping a woman who'd collapsed underneath a table at the front of the restaurant, and was having a seizure. When the ambulance arrived and she came back to sit down, not only was she not bothered about our presence in the slightest, but she told us a very interesting story which we wouldn't have got in any other situation.
And that, my friends, is an Aaron TRUFAX!
Quote: Seefacts @ March 27 2009, 5:10 PM GMTNot really, no. But I believe anyone under 40 wouldn't have asked to sit at the table.
Nah. That's it for me. It's a wind-up. 
Seefacts, I think you realise you were out of order on this occasion. I hope that you have learned from your mistake, and do not make a similar error if faced with this situation in the future. And, by the way, would you tell me to calm down if we were face to face?
The old couple you threw aside are probably at home now, struggling to keep warm as they attempt to cook mince with a torch.
Quote: don rushmore @ March 27 2009, 5:36 PM GMTSeefacts, I think you realise you were out of order on this occasion. I hope that you have learned from your mistake, and do not make a similar error if faced with this situation in the future. And, by the way, would you tell me to calm down if we were face to face?
I freely admit it was a smart-arse, yeah. Not a lot I can do about it. However I'd rather come across as rude to two strangers, than have my lunch ruined by the presence of people I don't know.
Would I tell you calm down? Depends what was going on, obviously.
Quote: Michael Everett @ March 27 2009, 5:39 PM GMTThe old couple you threw aside are probably at home now, struggling to keep warm as they attempt to cook mince with a torch.
Yeah, well I'd sat at the match box first.*
*Doesn't really work as a joke.
Fair enough, Seefacts. You have your opinion, and I have mine. On a more positive note, I do see a little good in you - not much, but a little.
Quote: don rushmore @ March 27 2009, 5:48 PM GMTFair enough, Seefacts. You have your opinion, and I have mine. On a more positive note, I do see a little good in you - not much, but a little.
That'll do for me!!