NEWBIES - some advice Page 2

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 7:40 PM GMT

Possibly, as there is only one half hour sitcom option available. My version seems to be american though, as it only offers an american-english spell check, which is rather annoying.

I can manually switch the automatic cast generator off though, from the overall preferences.

So none of you guys even include a cast list under your scene headings? Surely keeping documentation of who is in each scene makes life easier, when it comes to filming. I often think from the production/filming side too.

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A shooting script is different to the initial script which should be enjoyable for the reader.

Have you seen other examples of sitcom scripts Demay?

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 8:02 PM GMT

Regarding the comments about writing all six episodes, I enjoy it, and its fun.

In a perfect world, a production company might love the idea so much, that they want to film the whole series immediately, with minimal changes or rewrites. Unlikely, but who knows.

Other advantages for writing a whole series, include -

- You will never be stuck for ideas

- You have a clear idea of where the character developments and plots are going

- You are proving to any production company/producer that you are a capable writer, who can follow through and develop a pilot into a series. (Whats the point in hiring a writer who has 10 good ideas, but would struggle to turn any one of them into a full series if required)

- Your writing improves each time you write a script

- The characters and concept stay fresh in your head, as its easy to lose touch with a specific project if you've got several on the go.

- These episodes will be a saviour, one year down the line, when the pilot is comissioned and you are told to write a whole series. You were in the zone at the time, and completely in the world of this project.

- The more time you spend on a project, the more involved you become. Its easy to forget about your characters, or their direction if the script has been gathering virtual dust for 2 years.

- All your ideas are getting documented. Ideas always come and go. You may forget you've even had them. Documenting your ideas, including turning them into full episodes is a good thing.

I can see where people are coming from, with the 'write a pilot and move on swiftly' mentality, but for me, its not fulfilling.

I have 100% confidence that this series is the best thing since sliced bread. I am passionate and almost obsessed with this idea. I have no interest in moving on to another idea, until this series is completed.

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I'm going to patronise you now, so apologies for this.

Is this your first sitcom project? How long have you been writing? And, lastly, how old are you?

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ March 8 2009, 8:20 PM GMT

A shooting script is different to the initial script which should be enjoyable for the reader.

Have you seen other examples of sitcom scripts Demay?

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I know the difference between a shooting script and spec script.

Yep, I've seen a few sitcom scripts. Some had a cast list, some didn't.

Quote: Seefacts @ March 8 2009, 8:26 PM GMT

I'm going to patronise you now, so apologies for this.

Is this your first sitcom project? How long have you been writing? And, lastly, how old are you?

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No worries. This is indeed my first project, and I have only been writing for two months. A newbie, although I've had the idea and intentions for years, but was always too busy to do it.

I've done a fair amount of research though, and I'm not coming into this thinking that its gonna be a walk in the park. I'm not deluded, but just optimistic.

I probably don't know half as much as any of you guys about the industry, but I'm not a dummy, and I believe writing a full series is a postive thing. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on that?

I'm 24. Why is that relevant though?

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 8:31 PM GMT

I know the difference between a shooting script and spec script.

Yep, I've seen a few sitcom scripts. Some had a cast list, some didn't.

Now worries. This is indeed my first project, and I have only been writing for two months. A newbie, although I've the idea and intentions for years, but was always too busy to do it.

I'm 24. Why is that relevant though?

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Just interested. Age not really relevant, you're correct.

But - and again, you can ignore me on this, most do - my first sitcom project(s) I too piled everything into and wrote 6 episodes. I could see it being the funniest thing ever. Of course, it wasn't and I moved on. The next project I planned all six episodes and didn't even consider working on anything else until I'd written everything. I had everything worked out in intricate detail before realising it was garbage and binning it.

Now, I'm not saying your work is garbage obviously, but don't get too wound up in your first project is all I'm saying. Now, in doing what you're doing in this early stage of your writing is probably a good thing because you learn a lot about how things work and structure. But don't get too far ahead of yourself this early on, as it's actually counter-productive.

I didn't write anything remotely decent until I'd been writing for about 3 years.

Don't fall into the 'I'm going to be brilliant at this straight away' trap and get too involved in it.

I'm not hung up on it either, it's just as someone who's developed stuff / had stuff pitched to networks etc I just thought I'd pass on my thoughts!

Hi guys.

As far as cast lists go, forget it. Everything relevant should be in the script. As you get more experienced you learn to cut down more efficiently on the "big writing" - i.e. the stage directions. Always strive for the less is more approach in both your stage directions and dialogue.

Cutting down on the "big writing" also is valuable in cutting down your page count, which is always an issue in sitcom.

In a drama series (not soap) I can see why outlining future episodes may be important. In sitcom, forget it. Get your characters, their situation and the style of show in one episode. If you get interest everyone is going to have their say in how you rework the pilot. Pilot episode is key to sitcom and you'll be going through many drafts of the 1st episode before everyone is happy.

Best of luck!

Quote: Tim Walker @ March 8 2009, 8:51 PM GMT

Hi guys.

As far as cast lists go, forget it. Everything relevant should be in the script. As you get more experienced you learn to cut down more efficiently on the "big writing" - i.e. the stage directions. Always strive for the less is more approach in both your stage directions and dialogue.

Cutting down on the "big writing" also is valuable in cutting down your page count, which is always an issue in sitcom.

In a drama series (not soap) I can see why outlining future episodes may be important. In sitcom, forget it. Get your characters, their situation and the style of show in one episode. If you get interest everyone is going to have their say in how you rework the pilot. Pilot episode is key to sitcom and you'll be going through many drafts of the 1st episode before everyone is happy.

Best of luck!

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He's back!!

Quote: Seefacts @ March 8 2009, 8:53 PM GMT

He's back!!

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Yep, more comebacks than Sinatra me.

Now sane and well and halfway through a new script.

Oh, by the way, best of wishes to our new friend. Remember, to write original comedy you will have to learn to enjoy crushing disappointment, even when people love your work.

Sound advice from seefacts and Tim Walker - Nice one

Another question though, is it completely naive of me to think that a production company could/might consider taking on my show with 'my' ideas?

It sounds as though a lot of these companies just take your pilot to pieces, take all the credit, and you end up making a different show (as explained on Charlie Brooker's Screenwipe )

I'm literally obsessed with this single idea, and truly believe that it could and would sell to a wide audience.

I realise that this industry is more than hard to get into, but I believe in my heart, that writing the full series is the right thing to do, so I'm gonna do exactly that.

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 9:13 PM GMT

I'm literally obsessed with this single idea, and truly believe that it could and would sell to a wide audience.

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This happened to me, I'm now divorced living in a 1 bedroom flat, with the same idea.

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 9:13 PM GMT

Sound advice from seefacts and Tim Walker - Nice one

Another question though, is it completely naive of me to think that a production company could/might consider taking on my show with 'my' ideas?

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Yes, I'm afraid. The producer will want to see it as their show too. Even though you'll look at their ideas and think 'What's the point of that?'. They need their ideas in it, that's just the way it goes.

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 9:13 PM GMT

It sounds as though a lot of these companies just take your pilot to pieces, take all the credit, and you end up making a different show (as explained on Charlie Brooker's Screenwipe )

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Well, it's still your show but you have to compromise in this early stage. It's annoying, yes, but you've got no choice.

I got asked to change the whole setting of a sitcom. I did it. Now a different person wants it changed back.

Quote: Demay @ March 8 2009, 9:13 PM GMT

I'm literally obsessed with this single idea, and truly believe that it could and would sell to a wide audience.

I realise that this industry is more than hard to get into, but I believe in my heart, that writing the full series is the right thing to do, so I'm gonna do exactly that.

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Hey, good luck, no one's stopping you obviously. Just be wary that while it'll benefit you as a writer, it probably won't benefit you in terms of getting the thing made.

Good luck! And do stick around the forum.

DeMay - you said earlier you're writing the entire series partly for your own enjoyment, so that's fine. (If not a tad masochistic!) :-)
As long as you're writing regularly you will get better.

But it's also very easy when you're first starting out to put all your eggs in one basket and fall in love with your first project. You should really try to resist that. Seefacts is right in that you should write your pilot, get it as good as it can possibly be, have a rough outline of future episodes, then send it out and move onto something else.

You may also be right in thinking this first project is the best thing since sliced bread. But you also have to be aware that producers like writers to be pliable and open to ideas. Having an entire series written on spec doesn't suggest that. So what I'd say is, if you're deriving pleasure from writing it, then fine, but when you come to sending your script out, take the path that's expected of you and just send the one episode, where you see the series going, and a small description of further episodes. (And I mean a few lines each, that's all.)

And in a few years time as your trembling hands reach for another glass of Tesco Value Scotch, you'll be so thoroughly f**ked off with the depressing, soul-destroying Hell that is comedy writing, that you'll curse the day you wrote your first gag, wondering what possessed you to put yourself on this lonely, desolate path so liberally strewn with would-be writers, dead-eyed husks of humanity that have seen so many of their hopes and dreams dashed into a million shards of black, obsidian despair. *

* that was a joke.

Having been working with some top people the last 6 months, don't be afraid of suggestions. You take on board the good ones and argue against the bad ones. Very few great shows come solely from the imagination of the writer(s). You'll have disagreements, you may even feel extremely protective of your vision.

But I would urge anyone to buy the Peep Show script book. Bain and Armstrong were getting notes on every episode in series 4 and were grateful, not resentful. They were getting notes from the same lady who gave me notes. You have to respect producers and commissioner's opinions when they have a great track record.

The reward is that they never claim to be writers and do respect your abilities.

Quote: Lee Henman @ March 8 2009, 9:20 PM GMT

And in a few years time as your trembling hands reach for another glass of Tesco Value Scotch, you'll be so thoroughly f**ked off with the depressing, soul-destroying Hell that is comedy writing, that you'll curse the day you wrote your first gag, wondering what possessed you to put yourself on this lonely, desolate path so liberally strewn with would-be writers, dead-eyed husks of humanity that have seen so many of their hopes and dreams dashed into a million shards of black, obsidian despair. *

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Lee and his brilliantly anti-comedy writing diatribe - you could set your watch by it

Quote: Seefacts @ March 8 2009, 9:22 PM GMT

Lee and his brilliantly anti-comedy writing diatribe - you could set your watch by it

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I'm just trying to put all you other f**kers off. Is that so bad?

Quote: Lee Henman @ March 8 2009, 9:20 PM GMT

And in a few years time as your trembling hands reach for another glass of Tesco Value Scotch, you'll be so thoroughly f**ked off with the depressing, soul-destroying Hell that is comedy writing, that you'll curse the day you wrote your first gag, wondering what possessed you to put yourself on this lonely, desolate path so liberally strewn with would-be writers, dead-eyed husks of humanity that have seen so many of their hopes and dreams dashed into a million shards of black, obsidian despair. *

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My wife said that to me the day she left