I don't like the police, but it's horrible to see anyone being kicked or stamped on, in the head.
Fans Get Even Page 2
Quote: Lee Henman @ February 27 2009, 11:53 AM GMTAnyway, they got him in the end. And what do you think happened to him when they got him back to the cells?
Knowing the justice system in this country, he was probably released with a bit of a botty spanking a few hours afterwards.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ February 27 2009, 2:18 PM GMTI've seen things first hand on both sides. Some very nice rozzers looked after myself and a friend when my car caught fire on the motorway and gave us ciggies
Yes, because that's juuuust what you need; more fire.
Quote: Nil Putters @ February 27 2009, 2:53 PM GMTI don't like the police, but it's horrible to see anyone being kicked or stamped on, in the head.
Agreed.
DaButt's arguing that the crowd - and we - don't know what was happening because of the camera angle, the sound, etc. But the players who were close around the cops, and thus able to see and hear everything, joined in too. I think that's quite telling.
Quote: Aaron @ February 27 2009, 2:55 PM GMTDaButt's arguing that the crowd - and we - don't know what was happening because of the camera angle, the sound, etc. But the players who were close around the cops, and thus able to see and hear everything, joined in too.
It looked like players from only one team attacked the cops. Perhaps it's a case of the visiting team seeing one of their fans tackled by the local cops. It may be just another case of city vs. city with the added bonus of police and athlete participation.
Quote: Nil Putters @ February 27 2009, 2:53 PM GMTbut it's horrible to see anyone being kicked or stamped on, in the head.
Actually, I take that back. If anyone would like to come round to my house and stamp on the woman upstairs' head, feel free.
That was unnecessary force, edited video or not.
I hate how complacent people are with police brutality it's always the victims fault.
It's horrible that they attacked those police like that but come on a badge doesn't give you the right to cause harm to make your job easier.
Quote: Curt @ February 27 2009, 6:40 PM GMTThat was unnecessary force, edited video or not.
None of us can judge whether it was unnecessary or not because none of us have all the facts. Was the man armed with a gun or knife? What was being said while everyone was on the ground? Was he drunk or on drugs? Where were the man's hands and what was he holding in them? Nothing but questions and all of them are unanswered.
Police officers are trained very well when it comes to subduing someone. They're trained to do so while minimizing the risks to themselves, the suspect and bystanders. The first thing they do is ensure that the suspect has nothing in his hands. Then they take control of his hands and handcuff them behind his back. At that point the situation is pretty much over - all the suspect needs is a good patting down for weapons.
Most of the time a simple command of "turn around and put your hands behind your head" is all it takes to handcuff a suspect. Sometimes the suspect decides to put up a fight, which can be anything from a brief scuffle to a full-on life-or-death battle. No police officer is going to allow a combative suspect to hide his hands. Sometimes it takes a few jabs from a baton to take the fight out of an unruly suspect - that's what the batons are designed to do.
The only circumstances under which this event could be considered to constitute police brutality would be if the man was completely compliant and already handcuffed and subdued before he was hit with the baton. I think the opposite was probably the case here - he didn't comply until he had a few jabs in the ribs.
Give it up, the dude is down even before the cut even happened.
He's got a sign in his hand and that's it, and you can see he's not moving after he's hit the floor even before the cut.
Just because the guy didn't listen doesn't give the cop the right to beat someone down like that.
Your looking for excuses to blame the victim at all costs, 'he's possibly got a gun, he's possibly got a knife, he's f**ked up on the grass look at him!
People do dumb things all the time, a beat down shouldn't be the answer for their act. That's just plane oppressive mentality.
Canada! Canada! Canada!
Quote: Curt @ February 28 2009, 1:07 AM GMTGive it up, the dude is down even before the cut even happened.
He's got a sign in his hand and that's it, and you can see he's not moving after he's hit the floor even before the cut.
Just because the guy didn't listen doesn't give the cop the right to beat someone down like that.
Your looking for excuses to blame the victim at all costs, 'he's possibly got a gun, he's possibly got a knife, he's f**ked up on the grass look at him!
People do dumb things all the time, a beat down shouldn't be the answer for their act. That's just plane oppressive mentality.
Ever heard of someone carrying a knife or gun in their belt or pocket? There's no way a cop can ascertain whether a suspect is armed or not until he can be frisked and that requires the suspect to stop struggling and allow himself to be searched.
He was not "beaten down." The cops used minimal force. The guy most likely walked away with a couple of bruises on his ribs. They followed established procedures that are used by police around the world.
Quote: DaButt @ February 28 2009, 1:21 AM GMTThe guy most likely walked away with a couple of bruises on his ribs..
That's ok then, just a couple of bone bruises.
DaButt you have to look at this in a different light.
If you (a medium build at best) are taken down by 4 (large) policemen and beaten with a baton - that's unfair no matter how you look at it.
If 4 policemen can't restrain one man without beating him there is seriously sometihng wrong with their policing skills.
If you watch the rest of the video I thought "oh good the police get their own back" - but the fans took it too far and kicked the shit out of them which again is out of order.
Police abuse there power a lot (I actually have an ex co worker who's joining the police because he hates being bullied in real life!).
But there are good coppers out there too but unfortunatly just got a glance of some very stupid and brutal ones in that clip - real shame, they should be an example for others.
Quote: Paul W @ February 28 2009, 12:36 PM GMTIf you (a medium build at best) are taken down by 4 (large) policemen and beaten with a baton - that's unfair no matter how you look at it.
If 4 policemen can't restrain one man without beating him there is seriously sometihng wrong with their policing skills.
Absolutely incorrect. As I've said several times, they followed standard police procedure in order to subdue the man. Cops are not given batons until they have been trained to use them. They know exactly where to prod or hit someone to cause them to drop their hands, sit down, release their grip, etc.
I've seen videos where 5 or 6 cops had great difficulty restraining a single enraged man. Drugs and alcohol can seemingly give a violent person superhuman strength. People on PCP have been known to break handcuffs and even their own bones while struggling with officers.
I showed the video to a friend of mine without filling him in on the discussion we've been having on BSG. This friend hates cops for the most part. In fact he used to spend a lot of time talking shit to cops and harassing them on police message boards. He's also familiar with police beatings: about 30 years ago some cops were trying to arrest his friend for disorderly intoxication, so my friend began whipping one of the cops with a fiberglass fishing pole. A serious beating at the hands of the cops ensued.
My friend watched the video and his comments were:
"That was no beating. The cops just poked him a couple of times with a nightstick to get him to stop resisting. Anyone with half a brain knows that if you disobey a cop's orders and try to resist being handcuffed you'll wind up with a bunch of cops on top of you and they'll escalate the force until you comply. But nowadays they'll just taser your ass."
Quote: EllieJP @ February 27 2009, 10:07 AM GMTThe way the audience behaved it completely out of order and they all deserved to be put in jail. Those poor policeman beaten to hell. 4 cops on one stupid man or 100s of drunken hooligans on 4 cops!!!
Echo that, EJP.
DaButt's right in that there is a clear cut in that video. And we have no answers to any one of the questions that could (in court) clear up whether this was legally reasonable or unreasoable force. We have no real context to the incident, just the event itself, from one angle, with a very clear edit point that cuts a section of action out.
What's the difference between deploring the cops' actions and then seeing the crowd's reactions as justifiable and simply a matter of 'getting even'? That way leads to morality-by-mob-rule and anarchy.
Echo Nil, stamping or kicking someone's head is not right, whoever's head it happens to be.
Would it make a difference if the pitch invader's banner was revealed to say;
"ALL POLICEMEN ARE NANCY-BOYS WITH INADEQUATE WEAPONS"?