Quote: roscoff @ February 22 2009, 12:35 PM GMTMark 3:24
And Jesus stood on the runwayAnd looked into the throng
And asketh them
Where has thy Jumbo Jet gone?
Things you bragged about at school but never did.. Page 6
Quote: Lee Henman @ February 23 2009, 12:30 PM GMTTo be a true advocate of science, you also have to have an open mind to possibilities that are beyond our current understanding. Because if one thing is guaranteed, we can't explain everything, and we never will.
I'm very much open to advances in our understanding of how the universe works. But when it comes to simple parlor tricks that have been proven to be just that - trickery - I'm not inclined to offer much room for doubt. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean that anything is possible.
Quote: SlagA @ February 23 2009, 1:24 PM GMTI'm cut both ways here.
You seeing both sides Mr Slagg, you do surprise me! 
Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 23 2009, 1:40 PM GMTYou seeing both sides Mr Slagg, you do surprise me!
You want to see me trying to shop. So many choices, all of them arguably valid. 
As ever Mr Slagg is our cool voice of reason.
I think the question is about drawing inferences and conclusions from empirical data and research data. A religious fundamentalist will say the Bible is true, because I "believe it is true." Too quote the Babel fish paradox from HG2TG prove denies faith, ergo a religious person actively DOES NOT want to prove his belief as that would make his faith meaningless. Hence the creationist theory of the creation of the universe is a view point and not a provable scientific theory.
As such these stories may be fairy stories but on a fundamental level even the strongest believer of them accepts this. To look at the story and ignore the exegesis is like refusing to eat a burger because the wrapper is inedible.
What the alien abduction/ghosts/telekinesis etc lobby are doing is taking scant imperical data. Applying a pretty tenuos theory and then comparing it to religion. But with out even that tenuos fact these theories collapse. Unlike religion they need proof to sustain them selves.
If you took a religious person back in time and showed him Jesus with a van full of fish and bread or Moses in a motor boat it would make no diference. The essential truth of the story to the individual is the important thing. Religion is by it's very nature an irrational act of faith.
But if you all HAD to choose a side, science or religion, just for now, which does your brain, (and y'know, common sense) tell you to choose?
Just wondering.
Quote: Lee Henman @ February 23 2009, 12:30 PM GMTScience makes mistakes all the time. That's how it grows and improves, by learning from its mistakes. In his relativity equations, Einstein created a cosmological constant that stated the Universe was static and not moving. He was proved wrong. In his own words "It was the greatest blunder of my life".
To be a true advocate of science, you also have to have an open mind to possibilities that are beyond our current understanding. Because if one thing is guaranteed, we can't explain everything, and we never will.
Prezunctly.
Science, even though I'm meant to be Christian. Hmmm
Yay! Good Ellie.
Quote: DaButt @ February 23 2009, 1:38 PM GMTI'm very much open to advances in our understanding of how the universe works. But when it comes to simple parlor tricks that have been proven to be just that - trickery - I'm not inclined to offer much room for doubt. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean that anything is possible.
Your "parlour tricks" may have been disproved, but they're isolated examples. The concept as a whole, has not.
Quote: zooo @ February 23 2009, 1:57 PM GMTBut if you all HAD to choose a side, science or religion, just for now, which does your brain, (and y'know, common sense) tell you to choose?
Just wondering.
Kinda like choosing between nuns and penguins.
Totally diferent but look similar if you're not paying attention.
Quote: Aaron @ February 23 2009, 2:03 PM GMTPrezunctly.
Of course scientists must keep an open mind. But that doesn't mean that every claim has as much merit as the next. There is almost certainly life on other planets - probably even within our own solar system. But that doesn't mean that people who claim to have been probed by spacemen are anything other than confused or mentally ill. It doesn't mean that some charlatan spoon bender is anything other than a competent magician.
I would choose penguins.
See?
It's not difficult.
Quote: DaButt @ February 23 2009, 2:09 PM GMTOf course scientists must keep an open mind. But that doesn't mean that every claim has as much merit as the next.
Agree. Most scientific theories can be proven so much more, overwhelmingly so, than ANY of the religious theories, etc. I just don't understand why people insist on giving them equal consideration.
It feels like they're being willfully obtuse, when I'm sure they're not.
Quote: Aaron @ February 23 2009, 2:04 PM GMTYour "parlour tricks" may have been disproved, but they're isolated examples. The concept as a whole, has not.
Every single claimant - dowsers, spoon benders, mind readers - have failed when subjected to scientific conditions. There's a million dollars for someone who can prove his case, but no one has even come close. Most don't even try once they realize that their slight of hand or cheating won't be allowed.
Quote: zooo @ February 23 2009, 1:57 PM GMTBut if you all HAD to choose a side, science or religion, just for now, which does your brain, (and y'know, common sense) tell you to choose?
Just wondering.
You should've watched Christianity: A History last night.
RELIGIOUS: Christianity: A History
On: Channel 4
Date: Sunday 22nd February 2009
Time: 19:00 to 20:00Eminent scientist Colin Blakemore examines Christianity's relationship with science. He argues that science is the biggest challenge Christianity has ever faced, and questions whether the fundamental tension between the two can ever be resolved. Or will science eventually make religion redundant? Blakemore interviews esteemed scholars and Churchmen in order to understand how science continues to force Christians to re-evaluate the way they look at the world.
Was extremely interesting. I assume it's on 4OD if not repeated during the week.