Quote: Lee Henman @ February 21 2009, 6:46 PM GMTDo you believe in God?
There is no scientific evidence to support the existence of God, there is only faith. There is no scientific evidence to support spoon bending, ESP or any of that other mumbo jumbo. Proponents have nothing but faith to back their beliefs, and a belief is not necessarily a truth.
Quote: Lee Henman @ February 21 2009, 6:40 PM GMTNeither has God but a lot of people believe in him. Far as I can see if you're a Christian, you believe in magic.
If you're tlaking about fundamentalists, spiritualists and others with a literal acceptance of religious truth. It's not fiar or true to apply that to people with a philosophical/theological approach to religion.
Paranormal experiences that can be proven instantly become scientific truth.
I mean how would mind powers affect a physical object? Would energy waves emenate from your brain? Would the part of your brain that produced this effect show up on an MRI?
N.B. Uri Gellar claims the US government paid him to kill a pig with telekinesis but he refused.
Quote: DaButt @ February 21 2009, 6:59 PM GMTThere is no scientific evidence to support the existence of God, there is only faith. There is no scientific evidence to support spoon bending, ESP or any of that other mumbo jumbo. Proponents have nothing but faith to back their beliefs, and a belief is not necessarily a truth.
I just can't help drawing extremely-strong parallels between people who believe in God and people who believe in ESP / aliens / ghosts etc. After all, if you believe in God and go to church etc, you therefore believe in extra-terrestrial lifeforms. God wasn't born on Earth was he / she / it? Therefore God is an alien. To me, religious people are the biggest believers in the paranormal. Whatever your faith, if you pray to and worship a mystical being in the sky, you're a believer in the paranormal.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 8:23 PM GMTN.B. Uri Gellar claims the US government paid him to kill a pig with telekinesis but he refused.
There are some great Geller clips on YouTube. In one of them he can be seen attaching a fake, magnetic thumb to influence a compass.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 8:23 PM GMTIf you're tlaking about fundamentalists, spiritualists and others with a literal acceptance of religious truth. It's not fiar or true to apply that to people with a philosophical/theological approach to religion.
I don't know what you mean, Sooty. What I'm saying is that if you believe in a magical being called God , who has magical powers to create planets and stars etc, then you're a believer in the paranormal. Surely it's that simple isn't it?
Quote: Lee Henman @ February 21 2009, 8:26 PM GMTI just can't help drawing extremely-strong parallels between people who believe in God and people who believe in ESP / aliens / ghosts etc. After all, if you believe in God and go to church etc, you therefore believe in extra-terrestrial lifeforms. God wasn't born on Earth was he / she / it? Therefore God is an alien. To me, religious people are the biggest believers in the paranormal. Whatever your faith, if you pray to and worship a mystical being in the sky, you're a believer in the paranormal.
Well the irrationality of fundamentalist faith and a belief in the supernatural is similar. So what? 2 people can have the same delsuion about diferent things.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 8:23 PM GMTI mean how would mind powers affect a physical object? Would energy waves emenate from your brain? Would the part of your brain that produced this effect show up on an MRI?
No idea. I personally think it's got something to do with quantum physics.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 8:29 PM GMTWell the irrationality of fundamentalist faith and a belief in the supernatural is similar. So what?.
I'm trying to illustrate the fact that believing in God / going to church etc is seen as a perfectly-normal thing, but believing in alien life / esp etc is seen as kooky. Which is ridiculous, because "if you believe the Virgin Mary was impregnated by a ghost of some sort, and as a result produced a son who could walk on water, raise the dead, turn water into wine, and multiply loaves of bread and fishes, then you really have no right to laugh at people who believe in aliens." - James Randi
Quote: Marc P @ February 21 2009, 4:23 PM GMTA reverse kind of thing. I entered a poem in the school literary competition under a friends name and when announced as the winner he had to collect his prize.
A reversal here too. My friend won a school poetry competition and, after collecting the prize, he entered me.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 8:23 PM GMTUri Gellar claims the US government paid him to kill a pig with telekinesis.
Was it Liza Minelli?
Lee believing in God doesn't mean literally believing in every word or act in the bible. My issue with faith in aliens esp etc. Is these are essentially negative faiths. I know people who campaign for peace give to charity etc because they believe their faith expects it of them. Belief in alien abduction is an empty belief in paranoia and fear. N.b. A friend of mine is a creationist. I think it makes hee sad and confused
Hi there sooty I have missed reading you. 
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 9:27 PM GMTLee believing in God doesn't mean literally believing in every word or act in the bible. My issue with faith in aliens esp etc. Is these are essentially negative faiths. I know people who campaign for peace give to charity etc because they believe their faith expects it of them. Belief in alien abduction is an empty belief in paranoia and fear. N.b. A friend of mine is a creationist. I think it makes hee sad and confused
Mmmm. I think believing that there is alien life is pretty realistic. I'm not talking about alien abduction stories and UFO sightings, but the belief that it's unlikely that the life on this planet is the only life in all the universe. It seems a pretty logical conclusion to make that there is a huge possibilty there are other lifeforms out there somewhere. Nothing to do with paranoia and fear - more to do with probablity. 
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ February 21 2009, 9:34 PM GMTNothing to do with paranoia and fear - more to do with probablity.
I read that as probe-ability. "Will alien life be probe-able?" is about all mankind would be interested in.
On the bright side, if there are countless billion populated planets in the universe, I might finally creep into triple digit friends on Facebook.
Quote: sootyj @ February 21 2009, 9:27 PM GMTLee believing in God doesn't mean literally believing in every word or act in the bible. My issue with faith in aliens esp etc. Is these are essentially negative faiths. I know people who campaign for peace give to charity etc because they believe their faith expects it of them. Belief in alien abduction is an empty belief in paranoia and fear. N.b. A friend of mine is a creationist. I think it makes hee sad and confused
Sooty - you don't have to believe every word of the Bible to be part of the point I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is (again) if you believe in a higher being with special unearthly powers, ie: God, then you believe in the paranormal.
The Oxford Dictionary defines the word as "Paranormal: adjective supposedly beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding.
That is God, whichever way you look at it. Hence, people who believe in God - to whatever extent - believe in the paranormal.
Rather than deflecting the focus onto God, I'd like to see some proof that any person has ever bent a spoon or moved an object with his mind. But there simply is none, because it has never been done.
Quote: SlagA @ February 21 2009, 9:45 PM GMTI read that as probe-ability. "Will alien life be probe-able?" is about all mankind would be interested in.
On the bright side, if there are countless billion populated planets in the universe, I might finally creep into triple digit friends on Facebook.
You have me as a friend. That's worth at least 50 with all my personalities! 