Heaven & Hell

Here's a very simple yet profound (I think) question that my mate came up with as we attempted to put the world to rights tonight over a few bottles of beer. Thought I'd share.

Basically we were talking about religion and what have you, (I know - boring bastards we are) anyway we got onto the subject of Heaven and Hell and the logical problems that surround these concepts. And my mate said "If the devil is evil and against God, why does he torture evil souls in Hell? Surely he should be patting them on the back for a job well done".

No doubt one of you clever buggers will have the answer, but it struck my alcohol-infused mind as being a fair point.

What say you? {hic}

I guess if you assume that Satan/Hell are purely evil and God/Heaven are purely good, then pats on the back could not exist in Hell. Nothing but blackness and soul-searing suffering would abound.

Conversely, I guess there couldn't be any harsh words or fisticuffs in Heaven.

The devil suffers in hell as well, I think. It's a difficult question to answer since the scriptures actually say little about hell itself other than describing it as a place of suffering. Our ideas about Hell are mostly drawn out from folklore and stories rather than having any significant basis in the Bible.

I think, if you're evil, you go to hell because you'd find heaven boring. Like, everyone has their own "heaven"... If that makes any sense.

Like, if you're a murderer, you probably can't think of anywhere worse to spend eternity than a world full of fluffy clouds and niceness. In hell, on the other hand, you can murser til your hearts content.

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 16 2009, 3:45 AM GMT

Heaven and Hell

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A great song by The Who.

But to my limited knowledge the devil was a fallen angel kicked out of heaven for getting ideas above his station. And people who go to hell are those who haven't been forgiven by God for their sins.

The Muslim's concept of heaven and hell appears much clearer, with us infidels all burning there, while the suicide bombers and beheaders get to screw virgins to their hearts content.

Quote: chipolata @ February 16 2009, 10:33 AM GMT

But to my limited knowledge the devil was a fallen angel kicked out of heaven for getting ideas above his station. And people who go to hell are those who haven't been forgiven by God for their sins.

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God seems like a bit of a bastard, really. Or at least he would be if he existed.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 16 2009, 10:35 AM GMT

God seems like a bit of a bastard, really. Or at least he would be if he existed.

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I exist all right.

Quote: PhQnix @ February 16 2009, 9:42 AM GMT

Our ideas about Hell are mostly drawn out from folklore and stories

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And Futurama.

Quote: PhQnix @ February 16 2009, 9:42 AM GMT

The devil suffers in hell as well, I think.

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And you were doing well with the theological arguements too...

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 16 2009, 3:45 AM GMT

Here's a very simple yet profound (I think) question that my mate came up with as we attempted to put the world to rights tonight over a few bottles of beer. Thought I'd share.

Basically we were talking about religion and what have you, (I know - boring bastards we are) anyway we got onto the subject of Heaven and Hell and the logical problems that surround these concepts. And my mate said "If the devil is evil and against God, why does he torture evil souls in Hell? Surely he should be patting them on the back for a job well done".

No doubt one of you clever buggers will have the answer, but it struck my alcohol-infused mind as being a fair point.

What say you? {hic}

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Well the whole concept of heaven and hell is a major simplification for the religiously disinterested. I don't think it really exists in the bible apart from florid prophetic descriptions which are ony taken literally by, suicide bombers and that annoying woman who shouts about Jesus on the London Overground.

Generally most religions have a concept of judgement based on personal morality and taking responsibility with in the laws of one's religion. The ideas of heaven and hell which people seem to see in religion are generally bollocks.

The idea that this bollocks is so appealing to people (e.g. the idea you get to suck Angel cock, whilst the devil bums your neighbours with a fiery cock). Says alot more about how bitter and miserable some people. As oposed to anything poor old God did.

Quote: Paul W @ February 16 2009, 12:30 PM GMT

And you were doing well with the theological arguements too...

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Admittedly that's based on Dante's poem rather than any actual knowledge of the devil or the scriptures. In Dr Faustus Mephistopheles says that the fallen angels do suffer as they "saw the face of God, and tasted the eternal joys of heaven," and thus they suffer in being deprived of this. Therefore they are free to torment or tempt people but they still suffer "ten thousand hells."

Quote: PhQnix @ February 16 2009, 12:38 PM GMT

Admittedly that's based on Dante's poem rather than any actual knowledge of the devil or the scriptures. In Dr Faustus Mephistopheles says that the fallen angels do suffer as they "saw the face of God, and tasted the eternal joys of heaven," and thus they suffer in being deprived of this. Therefore they are free to torment or tempt people but they still suffer "ten thousand hells."

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Yes but this is just a poem made from interpretation - the middle ages was a pretty God fearing time to be around.

I think most of our ideas about Heaven and Hell are derived from the middle ages, aren't they? I really have next to no idea what I'm talking about with this though. I'm just cobbling together ideas from literature, tall-tales and Futurama.

Quote: PhQnix @ February 16 2009, 12:48 PM GMT

I think most of our ideas about Heaven and Hell are derived from the middle ages, aren't they? I really have next to no idea what I'm talking about with this though. I'm just cobbling together ideas from literature, tall-tales and Futurama.

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As am I