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Food For Thought?

I just got this email through from an aquaintance under the spurious heading "Food For Thought". I just don't know where to begin, so I'll pass it over to you guys for debate.

The Uncomfortable Definition of an Infidel ...

Allah or the Lord Jesus Christ? The Muslim religion is by far the
fastest growing religion in the UK .

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for

maintaining my prison security clearance. During the training session

there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman

Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The

Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a
video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and

clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the

infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a

command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven.

If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation,

he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers

of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith

so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command

to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the

cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope

Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.

Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a

place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you

and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me

ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to

kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love

you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.

Needless to say, the organizers and promoters of the 'Diversification'

training seminar were not happy with this way of dealing with the

Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

Within twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U..K. to

elect a government of their choice, complete with sharia law

I think everyone in the U.K. should be required to read this, but with

the Liberal justice system, liberal media and the political correctness

madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.

John Harrison MBE. MIDSc

Tired chain letters like this one make a serious subject seem contrived and almost hysterical. There's plenty of news about the subject in every day's newspapers without people having to spread crap like this around.

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 15 2009, 3:04 AM GMT

I just got this email through from an aquaintance under the spurious heading "Food For Thought". I just don't know where to begin, so I'll pass it over to you guys for debate.

I'd start with moving it to my junk folder and... well that's pretty much my course of action.

No idea whether this conversation actually occurred (I doubt it), but preaching by radical imans in prisons is a recognised problem, and some of those preachers would certainly subscribe to the views expressed.

I have no idea whether the Koran provides any more ammunition for hate filled zealots than does the Bible, though I suspect there may be passages where the textual analysis required to justify mass murder is rather less tortuous than in the interpretation Gospels. But that is kind of beside the point; plenty of atrocities have been committed by Christians against Moslems - and other Christians; while there have been moments in history where Moslem states have been beacons of enlightment and tolerance. The problem is not the particular religion so much as what people choose to do with it.

Islamic radicalism is growing around the world, to the detriment of liberal, secular values. Commenting on the rise of the Taleban in Pakistan, President Zadari has said "It's been happening over time and it's happened out of denial. Everybody was in denial...It's important to stop them and make sure that it doesn't happen again and they don't take over our way of life. That's what they want to do."

Obviously it is nonsense to suggest that Moslems will take over Britain within 20 years, or even 200. It is rather worse than nonsense to suggest that all Moslems are planning to kill us in our beds. But there is a problem with radical Islam in this country and denial is not working.

The sort of story contained in this e-mail gains creedence because we are all so concerned with not offending (or provoking?) Moslems, that their beliefs go unexplored - and unchallenged. An honest debate about Islam in our society is long overdue.

Quote: Timbo @ February 15 2009, 12:24 PM GMT

we are all so concerned with not offending Moslems...

Speak for yourself. ;)

E-mail tooooo long to read right now. I'll go through it later. HOWEVER, I don't know if it was mentioned, but Islam is second only to Christianity as the most widespread religion in the UK.

Quote: Aaron @ February 15 2009, 2:40 PM GMT

Islam is second only to Christianity as the most widespread religion in the UK.

Numerically speaking, one is growing while the other is in decline.

Quote: Timbo @ February 15 2009, 12:24 PM GMT

Obviously it is nonsense to suggest that Muslims will take over Britain within 20 years, or even 200.

Britain in 200 years? Now that is a scary thought. It conjurs up images similar to those in Back to the Future 2, after Biff has become a multi-millionaire, and taken over.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

This is depressing years ago I did a GCSE religious studies course, I boredly flicked through to the Christain questions. One of which was roughly "If Chirst is the one true savior should we force all others to convert?" I like to think I have the sense to see why the answer is no and how some one would have answered it.

there's a diference between being accepting of Muslims and questoning why our government permits Hizzbollah and other Islamisit preachers of hate ino this country.

I think the phrase "my Jesus" in the email message was a big clue. :)

Doesn't this amount to incitement to racial/religious hatred?

(btw I did A-Level Religious Studies and was told by a fellow student and born again Christian that I was certainly going to hell, because of my lifestyle and mainly because I'm not baptised).

I did communications studies with the daughter of the chief Mormon of Dorset.

She couldn't say arse, so would say "base over apex" instead of "arse over tit"

Is there a way of supporting Muslims but oposing Islamist bigots? There really is a diference.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ February 15 2009, 5:02 PM GMT

(btw I did A-Level Religious Studies and was told by a fellow student and born again Christian that I was certainly going to hell, because of my lifestyle and mainly because I'm not baptised).

I can live with people telling me I'm going to burn in Hell because of my beliefs, but I draw the line at people who attempt to hasten that result with bombs and guns and knives.

Quote: sootyj @ February 15 2009, 5:05 PM GMT

Is there a way of supporting Muslims but oposing Islamist bigots? There really is a diference.

Fundamentalists in any religion are tossers.

My quote for the day.

Quote: sootyj @ February 15 2009, 5:05 PM GMT

Is there a way of supporting Muslims but oposing Islamist bigots? There really is a diference.

It is a difference that has been insufficiently explored. Most moslems are not potential terrorists, but most do hold views that most secular liberals would regard as reactionary and intolerant, and a bit loopy. As with Christians, Islamic fundamentlism exists on a continuum, making the drawing of such distinctions difficult not just for us, but for them also. Bigot is a subjective term, and the man you consider a moderate may feel he has more in common with your bigot than he does with you. While not necessarily embracing fundamentalism, many moslems are alienated by Western society, and indeed do not engage with it. I have a moslem friend who I am attempting to educate/corrupt (delete as appropriate) and his ignorance and rejection of the society in which he lives never ceases to astonish me. He is a nice chap, who, within boundaries, is willing to engage, but I would be worried if someone with less decency and more anger expressed the same views.

Maybe I'm a bit bigoted in my own way, as (so far) I won't travel to any countries that hold strict views on women having to dress very modestly. :)

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