Getting on the inside

Do you think the likes of the BBC and various producers and production companies understand just how difficult it is to get on the inside of the industry?

I've found that the only people who you can get in touch with are freelance producers, and they can't really help as such.

I've been told before by freelancers that I should contact people affiliated with the BBC or a indie company, or to go down more formal routes. Do these people understand that there are no routes to take that involve getting in touch with the BBC or with companies? Surely they can appreciate that a bit of arm-chancing and hustling are involved?

Where do the BBC and the like think the next writers are going to come from? Do they think it's like the Royals where the sons go straight into it and have their own shows? (In the case of John Sullivan's son, that may well be the case)

Surely most producers in the BBC had to take a few chances and do a bit of bullshitting etc. to get where they are? Why don't these people (who probably had a lucky break themselves) give something back? It's like they've forgotten what it's like to be struggling and trying to get where they are.

I was told by one producer that he didn't know what I expected him to do with a script? What kind of close-minded attitude is that? Who's making the decisions here then? Above the producer is the exec - ie, the person that runs the company. You can't get them to read your stuff, they won't touch it.

What's everyone else's thoughts on this?

You have to look at how other comedy people made it onto TV. People like Sacha Baron Cohen, Leigh Francis, Walliams and Lucas all did very short sketches (5 minute) for Paramount Comedy channel years ago. Something like that helps but doesn't always guarantee success. But first you have to convince them to show it. It is all about networking - but you have to find out who to network and where they are.

In music, Tony Wilson (ex Hacienda/Factory Records) now runs a music industry seminar every year for new bands and it discovered coldplay/daft punk and others. Maybe they should do one for comedy.

Seefacts, there is a big divide between programme makers and programme watchers. 90% of unsolicited script submissions are completely unsuitable – maybe even more, so most industry people are not looking to 'outsiders' to 'come through'. They don't think many of us are very good - and they are right.

TV is also very fashion-led and the trends are not really obvious to non-industry people. An example might be one of us writing a sitcom based on Partridge or Blackadder or even Peep Show – and this is not what they are looking for. This is why very funny material can be passed over for less funny stuff - the less funny stuff hits the trend.

TV is a business, and with very few exceptions, producers prefer to go to someone they can get a reliable piece of writing from, that may not be amazing, but can still be made without hours of re-writes. That means the same old names.

The best thing you can do to get on in the BBC is go to Cambridge.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ July 18, 2007, 11:56 AM

Seefacts, there is a big divide between programme makers and programme watchers. 90% of unsolicited script submissions are completely unsuitable – maybe even more, so most industry people are not looking to 'outsiders' to 'come through'. They don't think many of us are very good - and they are right.

TV is also very fashion-led and the trends are not really obvious to non-industry people. An example might be one of us writing a sitcom based on Partridge or Blackadder or even Peep Show – and this is not what they are looking for. This is why very funny material can be passed over for less funny stuff - the less funny stuff hits the trend.

TV is a business, and with very few exceptions, producers prefer to go to someone they can get a reliable piece of writing from, that may not be amazing, but can still be made without hours of re-writes. That means the same old names.

The best thing you can do to get on in the BBC is go to Cambridge.

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Surely the number one aim of a script is to be funny. If a producer read a funny script, but one that's not suitable, surely they could invite the writer in - give them a sort of apprenticeship - or work experience on a team-written show, or something.

I also do believe that yes a lot of the stuff they get will be painfully shit. It's the same with bands today. Years ago an area might have one or two local bands and musicians who get a reputation on the scene, and get noticed. Now of course, everyone knows someone in a band and there's just too many swamping the local music scene and everything gets dismissed as rubbish.

Quote: Seefacts @ July 18, 2007, 12:18 PM

Surely the number one aim of a script is to be funny. If a producer read a funny script, but one that's not suitable, surely they could invite the writer in - give them a sort of apprenticeship - or work experience on a team-written show, or something.

I also do believe that yes a lot of the stuff they get will be painfully shit. It's the same with bands today. Years ago an area might have one or two local bands and musicians who get a reputation on the scene, and get noticed. Now of course, everyone knows someone in a band and there's just too many swamping the local music scene and everything gets dismissed as rubbish.

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Seefacts, the answer is no, as strange as that may seem. Unfunny scripts will not get made, but a moderately funny one that needs minimal work will get the go ahead over an hilarious one that needs 'workshopping' for example. Most producers haven't got time to give writers 'an apprenticeship', they need usable scripts. That's why your sitcom (if you have one) isn't in production right now. Not because you haven't got talent, but because your script is not what they want.

Taking your band anology, the writer isn't the band, unfortunately! The band is the TV producer, production company or programme strand... The writer is drafted in to put across that 'sound', already created by someone else. Bizarrely, he would be more analogous to a producer, in music industry terms, mixing a sound that has already been created by the band.

I think finding a new writer is like finding a needle in haystack. And as a new writer you have to be a lot better than what they've already got for them to take that risk. In saying that, if you are a lot better than what they have I don't think you'll be overlooked as long as someone does read your stuff.

It is very true that there is a lot of crap being sent in and that is part of the problem. If you are not quite there yet then you'll have to find an alternative routes in doing jobs that are loosely related, but with contacts.

Quote: Seefacts @ July 18, 2007, 12:18 PM

Surely the number one aim of a script is to be funny.

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And there's the rub... i.e. what is funny, exactly? Anyway, the number one aim of a script for a producer is to get ‘bums on seats’.

I do agree that producers tend to pick from a small well of creativity, which is terribly short-sighted of them... but as Godot says, this is about business and there aren't many people in the industry (any industry!) who are likely to risk their jobs on a newbie.

What is it you’re after anyway?

You have choices. You can simply enjoy writing... and not bother trying to get your scripts/sketches produced. After all, if you enjoy it, you don't need to take it any further surely?

Or if you desperately want to work as a script writer and get your own ‘painful shit’ on TV, you're probably going to have to network with the 'right' people. Bug the heck out of them, do whatever it takes. I quote your words back at you simply to highlight the problem. I don’t think your work is necessarily that way inclined since I haven’t seen any… just that someone, somewhere will.

Getting anywhere in a field where there is a lot of competition (good or shit) requires that you have some luck (maybe even a lot) and you are prepared to talk to everybody in an effort to eventually reach and speak to the person that can help you the most. If you truly believe that you have written the next big thing… or could write it at some point in the future, then it’s worth it, right?

Another option is to get your work produced independently, perhaps showcase it on YouTube etc. A lot more work certainly and it’s not a highly original option these days but by opening your scripts up to the masses, at least you have the chance of obtaining feedback. And this feedback may even catch the eye of a ‘big producer’ somewhere. Not likely but hey, what do I know… it’s worth a shot. Maybe.

Bottom line… do what you enjoy. Enjoy what you do. A little trite perhaps but it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Darren! Fancy a quick one in the Nailgun? Drink, obviously, not man-on-man straight.

I just think producers should be more open to, say, pairing up a new writer with an experienced writer or script editor.

I think telly is the only industry where if they don't get the finished product then they're not interested. Imagine if that happened in sport.

Quote: Seefacts @ July 18, 2007, 1:53 PM

I just think producers should be more open to, say, pairing up a new writer with an experienced writer or script editor.

I think telly is the only industry where if they don't get the finished product then they're not interested. Imagine if that happened in sport.

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Well there are writing academies like in sport and training/placements available if you have the time. How does a 25 year-old footballer who has never played pro get into the Premiership? They don't do trials for that age group, so you'd have to start at lower club. A bit like sitcom writers having to start at sketch level I guess.

I'll be sending my first sitcom pilot shortly, so I might have a different view later.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ July 18, 2007, 2:00 PM

Well there are writing academies like in sport and training/placements available if you have the time. How does a 25 year-old footballer who has never played pro get into the Premiership? They don't do trials for that age group, so you'd have to start at lower club. A bit like sitcom writers having to start at sketch level I guess.

I'll be sending my first sitcom pilot shortly, so I might have a different view later.

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That's right. Of course no shows take sketches not like shows did in the 80s, so it's another avenue shut.

I should point out my main project is not a prime time sitcom idea, I'm pushing a kids show at the mo.

There are sketch shows for radio available.

Best advice is DIY. Usually sketches or podcasts and then send a body of work to a producer. If they see that you can produce material on your own up to a fairly high standard they may be more intested in gambling on you.

I know its hard to get a break in this business but i was reading a steve moffat interview and totally agree with what he says.

Personal Quotes
You're guaranteed to be lucky several times in your life-it's what you do with it. Young writers spend all their time worrying, in a way that David Gerrold did not and I did not. How do they get to meet the right people? How do they get to the right parties? If only someone would read my script... Forget all that. All these things are easy and will happen. The way you get your script to the right people is that you put it in an envelope. It's f**king easy. The difficult bit is writing something that is so good people will take a punt on a brand new writer. That's it-you have to write an absolutely terrific script.

steve moffat

Quote: james mccloskey @ July 18, 2007, 3:57 PM

I know its hard to get a break in this business but i was reading a steve moffat interview and totally agree with what he says.

Personal Quotes
You're guaranteed to be lucky several times in your life-it's what you do with it. Young writers spend all their time worrying, in a way that David Gerrold did not and I did not. How do they get to meet the right people? How do they get to the right parties? If only someone would read my script... Forget all that. All these things are easy and will happen. The way you get your script to the right people is that you put it in an envelope. It's f**king easy. The difficult bit is writing something that is so good people will take a punt on a brand new writer. That's it-you have to write an absolutely terrific script.

steve moffat

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I agree with Steve. All you have to do is write an absolute spellbinding terrific script and you're in.