Sitcom by numbers

Hi I came accross this website a few weeks back I think it's great. There are some truely talented people on here.

However when I read the critique of people's sitcoms I can't help but think that most of it, all though well meaning encourages sitcom by numbers. It's as if everyone has read "the book" on how to write a sitcom and unless you follow this structure your not going to get anywhere.

I'm sure that there are 100s of well-established writers within the business who can be turned to if a producer wants this type of mainstream programme like My Family. Surely as a budding writer the best chance you have to break into the business is to come up with something truly original or something that at least feels original?

I just have the feeling that if The Office or The Royle Family were posted on the critique forum, they would have been shot down in flames.

Quote: backofthenet @ January 27 2009, 7:56 PM GMT

Hi I came accross this website a few weeks back I think it's great. There are some truely talented people on here.

However when I read the critique of people's sitcoms I can't help but think that most of it, all though well meaning encourages sitcom by numbers. It's as if everyone has read "the book" on how to write a sitcom and unless you follow this structure your not going to get anywhere.

I'm sure that there are 100s of well-established writers within the business who can be turned to if a producer wants this type of mainstream programme like My Family. Surely as a budding writer the best chance you have to break into the business is to come up with something truly original or something that at least feels original?

I just have the feeling that if The Office or The Royle Family were posted on the critique forum, they would have been shot down in flames.

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You're quite right in the respect that the Royle Family would have been mauled in Critique. And The Office would've been labelled "dull" by most.

But in writing sitcom, I'm afraid there is most definitely an element of "writing by numbers". Even seemingly left-field comedies like the Boosh or Father Ted - and indeed The Office and the Royles have at their hearts a basic narrative structure like everything else. They might seem revolutionary but they're really not - certainly not in structure. They all have a beginning, a middle and an end because that's what a story is made of. This aspect is what most new writers struggle with at first - it's tough forcing all your funny lines and characters into little boxes within the script, but it's unfortunately a discipline that must be learned to be taken seriously.

Quote: Griff @ January 27 2009, 11:17 PM GMT

I very rarely review sitcoms in Critique, because you really need to read a good few pages to get a proper feel for someone's sitcom, and the format of this site isn't conducive to that. It'd be great if the new site allowed people to upload PDFs or something more readable.

But let's put to bed this constant refrain about "people wouldn't have got The Royle Family" or "The Office" which comes up time and again.

OPENING LINES OF THE ROYLE FAMILY:

INT. TEATIME - LIVING ROOM

IT IS HALF PAST SIX ON A FEBRUARY FRIDAY EVENING. A 26-YEAR-OLD WORKING CLASS GIRL, DENISE ROYLE, IS SITTING WATCHING TV WITH HER MAM. HER DAD, JIM ROYLE, IN HIS SIXTIES, IS SITTING READING A PHONE BILL. ALL THREE SMOKE CONSTANTLY THROUGHOUT.

DAD: Ninety-eight quid... it's good to talk my arse... (READING PHONE BILL) 929 1246, whose number's that?

MAM: It's Mary.

DAD: Mary! You've been ringing Mary next door? If you shouted she could hear you.

DENISE: She can hear you.

MAM: Give it a rest the pair of you.

DAD: Rest my arse... two pound fifty phoning next door... she's in and out all day like a bloody yoyo. (PAUSE) I'll put you a serving hatch in.

DENISE: You're tight as a crab's arse you.

DAD: Crab's arse my arse. Two pound fifty... good job she cured her stutter.

---

It's a far better scene description than many things that get posted - simple, unambiguous, even the use of the word "TEATIME" in the slugline is so much better than "EARLY EVENING" - and there are some decent jokes in it - "good job she cured her stutter". Calling the characters "DAD" and "MAM" is good too - most people would have labelled them "JIM" and "BARBARA", but "DAD" and "MAM" is a constant reminder of the family relationship while reading.

That slight extract sets up Jim's cantankerous character, Barbara as the peacemaker, and Denise as a gobby daughter telling her parents off.

The lightweight "plot" is set up (the whole episode revolves around Jim moaning about the phone bill) - we can't see that from a short extract, but if two or three scenes had been posted it would have been clear.

That's a quality piece of writing. I don't think people on here would have mauled that. And on a separate point (raised in a separate thread) I don't think it's so obscure that you can't understand what they're trying to do. I think Caroline Aherne's intention leaps off the page quite clearly, even without seeing the extra magic that the cast brought to the piece.

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I love you Griff.

For all the pathos, stilted pauses and awkwardness in both the Royles and the Office, they both have one thing in common - great lines.

Fair enough, you may be right.

But I strongly suspect that if The Royle Family had never been made, and you were reading that script for the first time without the benefit of picturing the cast saying the words, you'd be distinctly underwhelmed.

Quote: Lee Henman @ January 27 2009, 11:26 PM GMT

Fair enough, you may be right.

But I strongly suspect that if The Royle Family had never been made, and you were reading that script for the first time without the benefit of picturing the cast saying the words, you'd be distinctly underwhelmed.

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That's a valid point, but it's still packed with great lines, one thing the sitcoms in Crit always lack.

Quote: Seefacts @ January 27 2009, 11:27 PM GMT

That's a valid point, but it's still packed with great lines, one thing the sitcoms in Crit always lack.

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It's got good lines, that bit certainly. But I think one of the first criticisms that would be levelled at it would be that "it reads unpolished"..."it needs tidying up"..."it feels crudely-written", that type of thing. Of course we know that's bullshit - The Royle Family is as perfect a piece of comic writing as there's ever been - but the question is how would Critique have reacted to it without the benefit of picturing the cast. Don't forget it was very nearly not made by the BBC because of the very same reasons!

I reckon the best thing to do is do away with readers and actors and the like and just write a novel.

Quote: Griff @ January 27 2009, 11:59 PM GMT

Whatever happened to "novelisations"? That way you had the best of both worlds.

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They lost their novelty factor.

Quote: Griff @ January 27 2009, 11:54 PM GMT

If I were you I wouldn't take any notice of what people write in Critique.

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I don't know, any sounding board can be a good sounding board for general feedback - although I do sometimes feel people tend to follow the leader in their opinions, as it were.

Anyway I was just answering backofthenet's question with an honest opinion - didn't mean to rile anyone.

Quote: Griff @ January 28 2009, 12:37 AM GMT

You've not said anything to rile me, Lee. If you could only see me right now you'd realise I was a vision of sweetness and light as ever.

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Well that's good. I do get the impression that I sometimes rile you Griff. And it really riles me that I rile you. But if you're not really riled, then really my reason for being riled is really reduntant.

Quote: Griff @ January 28 2009, 12:47 AM GMT

Weirdly Lee, I also sometimes get the impression I've annoyed you, although I know at the same time it's not true.

But in general, don't take any notice of me being grumpy on here. Most of the time I just act the miserable f**ker for laughs.

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Duly noted. And no, I can't think of a single time you've annoyed me. Except that time when you jumped out from behind that bush and mercilessly bummed me. You could've had the decency to give me a reach-around!

Two old farts in a retirement home. It would make a good sitcom.

Quote: Leevil @ January 28 2009, 12:57 AM GMT

Two old farts in a retirement home. It would make a good sitcom.

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heh

Quote: Griff @ January 28 2009, 1:02 AM GMT

I do like to think of the BSG as a virtual reality geriatric ward.

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Yep. And Critique is the bin they store all the full colostomy bags.

Are you talking about Sootyj's jokes?