Quote: Lee Henman @ January 27 2009, 2:18 PM GMTHow far would the Columbine murderers have got armed with knives before they were stopped?
One man with a kitchen knife killed 8 and wounded 13 in a school in Japan. Two teenagers armed to the teeth with firearms killed 13 and wounded 23 in Columbine. Looks like more mayhem-per-person was committed by the man with the knife.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 3:01 PM GMTOne man with a kitchen knife killed 8 and wounded 13 in a school in Japan. Two teenagers armed to the teeth with firearms killed 13 and wounded 23 in Columbine. Looks like more mayhem-per-person was committed by the man with the knife.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Like I said - it's futile trying to reason with a pro-arms American. So I won't.
Happy to discuss comedy with you anytime though! 
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 2:06 PM GMTWhy should you have the right to own a carving knife? A pair of scissors? A can of gasoline? Rat poison? An automobile? A bucket of water?
I get what you're saying. Can't reeeally compare them to a gun though.
A gun is designed to kill. You can't really say the same for a bucket or a pair of scissors.
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 3:01 PM GMTOne man with a kitchen knife killed 8 and wounded 13 in a school in Japan. Two teenagers armed to the teeth with firearms killed 13 and wounded 23 in Columbine. Looks like more mayhem-per-person was committed by the man with the knife.
Instead attempting to prove that knives are more dangerous than guns (!) wouldn't you be better taking the position that a few dozen dead teenagers a year are a small price to pay for the right to bear arms.
Quote: zooo @ January 27 2009, 3:07 PM GMTA gun is designed to kill. You can't really say the same for a bucket or a pair of scissors.
Guns are designed to fire bullets at things and are therefore similar to a bow and arrow. It's the person holding it who decides whether it is fired at a paper target, an animal or a human being. Sometimes it's acceptable to shoot it at an animal or person and sometimes it's not.
Quote: chipolata @ January 27 2009, 3:09 PM GMTInstead attempting to prove that knives are more dangerous than guns (!) wouldn't you be better taking the position that a few dozen dead teenagers a year are a small price to pay for the right to bear arms.
I'll take the position that there are murderous scumbags on the streets of every city in every nation and they should be locked away for the good of the law-abiding citizenry.
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 3:13 PM GMTIt's the person holding it who decides whether it is fired at a paper target
Yes, guns are used in sports. But I'd say that's a side project for the gun, like killing is for a bucket or scissors.
The main reason, the only real reason a gun exists is to kill. (Whether that be a human or an animal).
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 3:13 PM GMTI'll take the position that there are murderous scumbags on the streets of every city in every nation and they should be locked away for the good of the law-abiding citizenry.
Which is a completely separate issue to the gun issue, and one most people would agree with (except Dolly Dagger, who's a very wishy-washy liberal).
Quote: DaButt @ January 27 2009, 3:01 PM GMTOne man with a kitchen knife killed 8 and wounded 13 in a school in Japan. Two teenagers armed to the teeth with firearms killed 13 and wounded 23 in Columbine. Looks like more mayhem-per-person was committed by the man with the knife.
Where there's a will there's a way.
That's the Japanese work ethic, they just make more of an effort.
N.B. why does it always have to be big deadly shooters or nothing? Tazers, pepper sprays, even some soft rubber bullet guns would enable people to defend themselves with none lethal force.
Also Is ay go with the Israeli model guns are available to borrow from your police station, if you're properly trained. A phenomenally low murder rate matched with the added security of an armed society.
Gun ownership not gun posession is the problem. Either that or following the Bush model, more accurate and powerful shoes for self defence.
Canada has more guns per capita than the United States...but we don't have the same amount of murders. Why because as you often say in your posts about guns DaButt only those qualified should have guns.
In Canada you need a license to own a firearm, and it's not just some wishy washy test either. You have to know your stuff.
Yes we still have people who are owning guns illegally who shouldn't but there are far less gun casualties because of our laws. Where are those guns being illegally brought in from? Yup the one with no regulations.
I think every person in my family (including uncles and cousins) own a gun of some sort. They are hunters and they are all registered and licensed. My point is the ones who want guns and are responsible enough to own a gun (those law abiding citizens you like to mention) are getting their guns, and the ones who want guns but aren't responsible enough to own one are at least deterred from getting their own.
Also Canada has a more generous welfare/medical system so less people falling through the net or having poorlt treated mental ailments.
Sweden and Switzerland used to have an assault rifle and ammo in every house, with a concurently low murder rate (granted a higher suicide rate).
Both the US and the UK have got this fundamentally wrong. The concept in the UK where one is dependent on ineffective policing and courts to protect one, is not a good model to be held up.
The murder and serious rates in this country are climbing, whislt government fudges the figures.
Yea you're right Sooty I should be mentioning that. There are of course other factors in place besides a few gun laws.
Quote: zooo @ January 27 2009, 3:14 PM GMTYes, guns are used in sports. But I'd say that's a side project for the gun, like killing is for a bucket or scissors.
The main reason, the only real reason a gun exists is to kill. (Whether that be a human or an animal).
I'd wager a year's salary that more bullets are fired at paper targets and game animals than are fired at humans in this country. Probably by a 500:1 margin or better.
Without a doubt it's the 1000s that get aimed at other people that's the problem.
I was watching to catch a predator and there was a class line on it.
That they have to use so many police officers for the arrests at the end, because of lax concealed fire arm laws. e.g. literally any one might have a gun, including idiot pedos caught on a stupid reality TV show scam.
I mean come on isn't that indicative that gun ownership should be more limited?
Quote: sootyj @ January 27 2009, 3:44 PM GMTThat they have to use so many police officers for the arrests at the end, because of lax concealed fire arm laws. e.g. literally any one might have a gun
I mean come on isn't that indicative that gun ownership should be more limited?
Concealed carry laws are anything but lax. They entail a thorough background check and many hours of professional training. Cops aren't worried about grandma with a derringer in her pocket, they're worried about the gangbanger with a pistol under his seat and the will to use it.
In terms of law and order, DaButt, do you think the USA has it right? Do you think it has a better record in this area than other countries?