Big Brother is watching you Page 8

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 12:24 AM GMT

The point is though that loyalty cards are optional. ID Cards (as currently proposed) aren't.

Also presumably loyalty card information has to be specifically requested by police and isn't instantly available at the press of a button to every lowly clerk in the Government who wants to snoop on his neighbours, unlike say the new NHS "spine" being brought in where any temp doctor's receptionist will be able to read the medical records of anyone in the country.

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Your phone company keeps records of who you called. Every time you make a purchase with a credit/debit card your information is stored in a database.

Not sure how it works in the UK, but I imagine a lowly employee at a private company has more access than a government employee. Unlawful access to government records in the U.S. results in criminal prosecution and punishment. (See the recent "Joe the Plumber" case.)

Quote: Curt @ January 26 2009, 12:26 AM GMT

poor loyal drunken customer. He'll have to take his purchases of Colt 50 elsewhere.

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Colt 50? Canada has seen our Colt 45 and raised it 5?

Is that a bootleg Bandage?

N.B. with the old paper database your employer may have more access than your records than you.
An insurance company certainly has more access to your loved one's records.

It's just that the ID card has been successfully beaten into near irrelevance (the ID card you can leave at home?)

But oyster and loyalty which are optional people gobble up.

The NHS needs a working database how it is made accountable and fair is I suspect a major battle to be fought.

Quote: DaButt @ January 26 2009, 12:31 AM GMT

Colt 50? Canada has seen our Colt 45 and raised it 5?

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Must be your higher dollar.

Quote: sootyj @ January 26 2009, 12:31 AM GMT

Is that a bootleg Bandage?

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Nnnnnnnnn yes yes it is.

Quote: Curt @ January 26 2009, 12:36 AM GMT

Must be your higher dollar.

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It's back above the loon? I remember a period a few months ago where the tables turned and I felt like I was living in Bizarro Land.

Quote: DaButt @ January 26 2009, 12:38 AM GMT

It's back above the loon? I remember a period a few months ago where the tables turned and I felt like I was living in Bizarro Land.

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Yea we were all on highs over here. Buying American like crazy and acting like jackasses.
Now we're back down too .80 It was a short lived victory for us.

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 12:36 AM GMT

Yeah but all these databases aren't joined up. (By the way I've worked in IT for 20 years so I've built my fair share of company databases, Satan rot my soul.) So, OK, the guy at the phone company can probably illegally access your phone records. The woman at the doctor's can probably illegally access your medical records. But what is being proposed in the UK is a massive aggregation of all these things, where Central Government can access ALL this stuff at once, which suddenly means the number of people who can access your details, and the amount of stuff they can access, suddenly goes through the roof.

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Again, I know nothing of the UK plan. But here in the States that information is scrubbed and compartmentalized and they need a reason to start poking through it.

I so look forward to the day that as part of this hideous governmental conspiracy I get access to that database.
I'll win every online argument.

You would say that your gay/communist/schizophrenic/the 5th member of ABBA.

Ever heard of cut and paste? Mu ha ha!

Actually in this Dystopian futre, Earon Drune, Gruff and others may have a dark time of it.

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 1:00 AM GMT

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/31/ips_dismissed_14/

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That's a good start. Now they just need to incarcerate the offenders.

There will always be people who have access to sensitive information. There just needs to be enforceable punishment for those who abuse their access to said information.

All systems are flawed, data is so valuable it's always been abused.
And it would happen with disparate sources, infact it's more likely to happen that way. A friend of mine works for the MOD and was amused that it was about a year after they became common place that data sticks were banned.

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 1:07 AM GMT

Yeah, I just don't like the idea of giving the same bunch of irresponsible crooks access to a hundred times more data than they need to do their jobs. Which will inevitably happen with these aggregated giant databases that New Labour are so keen on setting up, given their general outlook on the importance of state intervention vs. privacy.

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The flipside is how much info you're asked when you go into casualty because they have so little access to info.
And having done training with benefit fraud investigators, it's costing us billions each year because their technology is in the dark ages.
Of course there are dangers there always will be, but we can't discount the good side.

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 1:09 AM GMT

Well that's alright then Sooty, glad you've solved that problem for us.

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So is this a question of better designed systems for the government, that I'd agree with. The government does spend money on systems like a drunk monkey riding around PC world on a trike with a bag of money.

You changed your quote what problem have I solved?

Information they can access easily enough as it is. I mean they can intercept your post or break into your house with out issuing you a warrant if they so choose.
I think the passport thing isn't a databse problem, it's more a government hiring poorly vetted contractors from outside agencies at minimun wage.
The bloody immigration service have illegal immigrants working for it.
I'd say until you solve the human flaws the computer ones can't be fixed.

Quote: Griff @ January 26 2009, 1:18 AM GMT

The Home Office and other Government departments think "better" means that the State holds the maximum possible information on its citizens, from DNA records to records of every bank transaction, unwise sexual encounter, and ITV viewing habits, and that this information is widely available to just about every state official "in case they need it".

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What are the safeguards against unlawful use of the information? Is access limited by, and traceable to, an individual?

It all comes down to:

1) Who has access?
2) How will said access be monitored?
3) What are the penalties for unauthorized access?

And Captain America surrendered for one can not protect the people from themselves. Actually I was on the side of the Punisher.

Quote: DaButt @ January 26 2009, 1:24 AM GMT

3) What are the penalties for unauthorized access?

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Bugger all.