Quote: Griff @ January 9 2009, 4:41 PM GMTI'm of the opinion that sitcoms are no better or worse than they have ever been. Every era has its classics and its stinkers.
I agree.
The state of British sitcoms Page 2
I do think there was a blossoming of talent in the sixties and that as these talents matured it lead to a golden age of sitcom in the early seventies, with writers such as Galton & Simpson, Johnny Speight, the Pythons, Clement & La Frenais, Cooke & Mortimer, Larbey & Esmond, David Nobbs, Croft & Perry, Eric Chappell, Brian Clarke, Lynn & Jay, Peter Tilbury etc. all in their pomp.
This was a period of social and technological change, a generation had had its aspirations raised, and those whose talent lay in the direction of comedy writing had a medium in its infancy presenting unprecedented opportunities.
The subsequent success of the medium has resulted in a generation (or perhaps rather, generations) of wannabees. There is presumably as much talent around, but more people want to work in television and an accordingly smaller proportion have any natural aptitude. The (partially) open door approach of the early years has necessarily had to go, making it harder for genuine talents to get noticed. Furthermore, as television has matured as a business risk-taking has been, if not eliminated, then certainly brought under control, resulting in less encouragement of original voices.
The hope for a renaissance in the future lies in the dead hand of corporacy being overthrown by new technology which brings down costs, making viable a long tail of niche product, as has happened in the music industry. Unfortunately that, if it happens, is likely to still be some way off.
Very well thought-out and explained, Timbo. Bravo. 
Surely everyone loves Little and Large, don't they?
Griff, I'm pretty much on the fence. I don't necessarly think sitcoms from recent times are bad, but at the same time many simply do not light my fire, with only a few exceptions. This may say more about me as a viewer than it does any particular show.
Regarding why there appears to be generally many people saying modern shows are poorer in relation to shows from the past, could it be to do with the feelings of the time?
I am going to generalise here, but I mean things like the 1970s showed the saucy innuendo and the working class power struggle of the time, while the 1980s had a harder hitting political edge to some of the sitcom. But in the 2000s the tone has changed again to that of seemingly wanting comfortable safety amidst an uncertain world. So have sitcoms simply followed the general feeling of the times? If this is the case then perhaps it becomes difficult to really compare sitcoms from different time periods, because as well as trying to make us laugh they are also showing us what we are like at that point in time.
I think there are two factors to consider for the present. The comfortable safe feeling and money. Is it possible that because of this that the media turns to old favourites to resurect? (ie remaking sitcoms ala Perrin, sci-fi series etc) because not only is there instant familiarity to many but there is also less percieved financial risk involved with a known product. This too could reflect on the writers. Looking at BBC output at present they appear to use a lot of their tried and trusted writers as opposed to newer writers. The general feel seems to be that they are all writing to the brief of keeping it happy and risk free. Again I'm probably generalising so please forgive me.
I think I have tried to give some viewpoint above. It is difficult because I am at work and the guy opposite me won't stop talking about absolute crap. It drives me to distraction and this afternoon he is particularly annoying. He never shuts up. Ever! I don't get a moments peace. So I hope the above makes some sort of sense.
Def.
Quote: Griff @ January 9 2009, 5:51 PM GMTTimbo's explanation only holds water if you already accept his premise that "fings ain't what they used to be". It's an argument based on its own conclusion.
No it is an hypothesis that attempts to explain that conclusion.
For example his point about the wannabes. Yes there are many more people trying to get into television now than previously. So obviously, a lot more untalented people are trying. There's only so many geniuses in any generation. But it's a logic error to assume that the addition of these untalented masses has any effect on the number of genuinely talented people that come through with each generation.
The logic is not inevitable, but it is plausible, and fits the hypothesis.
If he's saying that the TV writing jobs in the post-70s eras went to these additional untalented wannabes, instead of the talented people who would have been commissioned had the wannabes not come along, then that's just personal opinion.
An hypothesis rather than an opinion (see above). But I think your point is overly reductive.
Regarding "a blossoming of talent in the sixties" - well fans of every era would say the same. Fans of eighties comedy would talk about the "blossoming of talent" in the late seventies with the explosion of alternative comedy, the Comedy Store/Blackadder gang of Mayall, Edmondson, Elton, Fry, Laurie, Atkinson, Curtis, etc (I could make a list as long as Timbo's 70s list but I won't).
The Comedy Store was an influential cultural reaction, but sitcom was not particularly the target, and I would argue that it did not particularly lead to a revival in the sitcom genre. I am struggling to think of any sitcom wrtiers other than Curtis, Elton and Saunders who came out of the Comedy Store. None of them favourites of mine as it happens.
Even allowing for differences in taste, I think you might struggle to find a five year period with so many good sitcoms as the first half of the 1970s.
I also don't buy that TV is anymore conservative and risk-averse than in previous decades. I don't see The Mighty Boosh, Bo Selecta! or Fonejacker as signs of a stagnant TV monoculture. For every experimental Monty Python the Golden Era gave us, there were a dozen shitty "Three Of A Kind" or "The Little And Large Show".
I agree that the increasing emphasis on niche broadcasting is promoting experimentation.
I always enjoy a good argument! As I said earlier in the thread, I do think the current crop of sitcoms speak of the health (and diversity) of the genre, but like Def, I am finding that while I am able to appreciate the strengths of these shows, there is not much I actually look forward to.
Will we ever see a sitcom go out at 8pm again?
Quote: Aaron @ January 9 2009, 4:25 PM GMTWhat, like Life Of Riley on BBC One last night?
Aaron, there appears to be something seriously wrong with the display on this forum.
Obviously, O B V I O U S L Y! I typed:
Will we ever see a sitcom go out at 8pm again, apart from the likes of The Life of Riley?
- but would you believe it? My original post is displaying with the last 9 words missing.
It got 5 million if anyone cares, and wether we'll see a drop, who knows?
Quote: Danny K @ January 9 2009, 10:45 PM GMTAaron, there appears to be something seriously wrong with the display on this forum.
Obviously, O B V I O U S L Y! I typed:Will we ever see a sitcom go out at 8pm again, apart from the likes of The Life of Riley?
- but would you believe it? My original post is displaying with the last 9 words missing.
Haha! Fair enough then.
I think this is the best discussion on this message board for some time, thanks for posting ADuck.
For what it's worth, I disagree that it's a bad time for sitcom. Yes, it's a bad time for new sitcom (only The Inbetweeners was a new hit last year), but 2008 also brought us more episodes of Lead Balloon, Outnumbered, Peep Show and Pulling - four exceptional sitcoms. Plus other stuff that wasn't to everyone's tastes but have an exceptionally stong love with those that do (e.g. stuff like The IT Crowd, Gavin and Stacey).
As Phill points out...
Quote: Phill @ January 9 2009, 3:05 PM GMTThat's a list which spans 23 years
We naturally tend, over time, to forget the bad stuff and only remember the good stuff. Rose tinted and all that.
Some of the previous comedy 'generations' delivered some absolute howlers, but we've managed to forget them now.
If you produced a list of all the sitcoms in this decade, I think you'd find it has just as many shows on it which will be remembered fondly for years to come, as in any other decade.
Having said that, I'll now blow my own argument up by pointing out my all-time favourite three sitcoms are from the 70s and 80s.
Quote: Griff @ January 9 2009, 4:41 PM GMTI bet there are some great ones amongst those I haven't seen, such as Outnumbered
I can't believe you haven't seen this yet Griff. Sort it out! 
I'm quite interested that you describe Pulling as 'exceptional', and then The IT Crowd as being "not to everyone's tastes". Surely that's the wrong way around?
Here's what I think.
When people talk of the unmissable, get-home-to-watch-it-at-all-costs Sitcoms of days gone by they are talking about a totally different media landscape.
Programmes got HUGE viewing figures because there was nothing else to do.
Consequently they became a common denominator.
The reason we'd all discuss it at school, college, work the next day is because we were all watching the same bloody thing.
And just like a film is better at the cinema, a joke/catchphrase etc is funnier when shared with others - it takes on a life of its own.
These days unless you are part of a niche eg a Boosh Fan, the chances of you having seen the same thing as your mates is pretty slim.
So these programmes are working without this massive tide of goodwill behind them.
How funny is "Don't tell him, Pike"? Or " that's nearly an armfull!"? I don't know to be honest, but there's so much goodwill behind them they 'feel' classic.
Only the reality/talent shows seem to have the ability to unite great swathes of the nation these days - mainly because they hook you in and the media make them into 'news'.
Of course there is a cause an effect here.
Having found it pretty near impossible to get half the nation behind any one comedy (because that's what it was) they want to get 5% of the nation behind ten different comedies.
In fact, comedy and the sitcom is probably healthier than ever.
Will we ever see, or think we're seeing a classic again?
Not in the same way IMHO
"Why, that's very nearly an armful!", actually. 
Otherwise, a very good post. I think there's a bit of truth in what pretty much everyone has said so far, all mounting up.