OK, you make some good points there. But I still love it.
American Rubbish!?! Page 4
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Quote: Leevil @ July 11, 2007, 5:18 PMOK, you make some good points there. But I still love it.
There were some great ones, though. With every bad episode I mentioned, there were outstanding episodes. Remember "Decoys", I mentioned? Back in Season 6, when Niles rents out a log cabin and contrives for Donnay and Roz to be there at the same time? Then Daphne show up, followed by Martin and Frasier.
Or The Matchmaker, The Candidate, Ham Radio, Frasier Crane's Day Off, My Coffee With Niles etc
It really is a masterpiece. And the first half of its run was just pure class. There probably won't be a show like it ever again.
Oh, yes, some of those were perfect sitcom.
The pilot was a superb way of quickly establishing character while inserting plot - a masterclass
Yes, the pilot was great and, like you say, the introduction of all the characters was very professional. When you first see Niles, for example, he and Frasier are talking over coffee and Niles is giving an ancedote about Maris.
Quote: ajp29 @ July 11, 2007, 1:54 AMTry to keep the debate objective and don't get personal, I don't think words like ignorant or arrogant really help matters. Focus on the wider debate not on whether one person has a right or wrong opinion. Thank you.
Didn't I state that in a previous argument? Just because someone finds Friends funny does not mean others do! I understand that the show is a worldwide hit, I just don't understand it! And if we're discussing fact and subjectivity, how can you state that shows from the US (or crossing the channel as you write) are more popular, where is your scientific proof? And I didn't start with the direct personal comments either, but I don't mind the banter and insults as it keeps posts interesting lol!
Comedy is subjective as is television and most other forms of entertainment! My argument was never about friends being funny, but about British comedy being neglected by UK mediums in favour of imported US comedy (which I believe to be largely inferior to UK stuff)which is a shame as shows such as 'Some mothers do 'ave em', and 'Rising Damp' are classics, but are pushed out in favour of 'trendy' rubbish such as Joey! As I stated earler maybe it is to do with satire, which most of the younger audiences tend not to understand!
Quote: Columbo @ July 11, 2007, 6:13 PMDidn't I state that in a previous argument? Just because someone finds Friends funny does not mean others do! I understand that the show is a worldwide hit, I just don't understand it! And if we're discussing fact and subjectivity, how can you state that shows from the US (or crossing the channel as you write) are more popular, where is your scientific proof? And I didn't start with the direct personal comments either, but I don't mind the banter and insults as it keeps posts interesting lol!
Comedy is subjective as is television and most other forms of entertainment! My argument was never about friends being funny, but about British comedy being neglected by UK mediums in favour of imported US comedy (which I believe to be largely inferior to UK stuff)which is a shame as shows such as 'Some mothers do 'ave em', and 'Rising Damp' are classics, but are pushed out in favour of 'trendy' rubbish such as Joey! As I stated earlier maybe it is to do with satire, which most of the younger audiences tend not to understand!
How can YOU say younger audiences don't understand satire?
UK mediums pick US shows because they're tried and tested. If a few seasons do well over there, they bring in over here - guaranteed hit. It's tested and it's grown because it's ran for a bit in the states.
Over here we have to start from scratch, and the execs don't like the risk. A cheaper US import is chosen, over a more costly and risky UK show.
I don't think UK classics are getting pushed out really. I'm sorry to say that execs need ratings so new shows take precedence in the schedules. Classics will never been shown primetime again - to be frank, they've had they time and now new shows get brought in. US shows are picked for the reasons I listed.
Hi Columbo
No one had a pop at you. In fact I did say that I can see your perspective. The comments about certain 'hot' words was intended for all users not any one in particular.
Re: scientific and subjective. I didn't actually say what you reported back (which was: "how can you state that shows from the US are more popular, where is your scientific proof?)
I said:
"SeeFacts makes an excellent point that the shows that cross the channel are biased in that they are the most successful but as comedy is subjective it doesn't always mean that everyone thinks they are funny."
Which maybe wasn't the clearest sentence I've written.
What I mean is that the US shows we see over here are usually the most successful of the US shows because only an idiot commissioner will import a comedy that flopped in the USA. And vice versa. So to judge USA comedies against the broad range of UK hits and misses that we view is unfair because we have the most 'successful' (I'm talking in terms of ratings) US shows being compared to some real UK (imo) turkeys.
And that would apply across the water to a USA viewer comparing his hit and miss US shows to the cream of UK shows.
Yet again we're talking subjectively because the usual method of success is ratings, which is only a measure of a show's popularity. Ask Copernicus what he thinks of majority views, eh?
Quote: Columbo @ July 11, 2007, 6:13 PMAs I stated earler maybe it is to do with satire, which most of the younger audiences tend not to understand!
It seems to be the other way round in this thread, the comedies you've listed Some Mothers Do Av Em, Rising Damp for however good they may be are hardly satire. While the US comedy scene which you seem to have not properly delved into is brilliant satire. I'm 18 and The Larry Sanders Show and Seinfeld are two of my favourite comedies one a magnificent satire on the television industry, the other the one of the best social satire sitcoms ever. I'm also a huge fan of The Day Today and Brass Eye, satire doesn't get much better than when Chris Morris is involved.
It's just that my generation was spoiled by good English sitcoms. These yank ones just pale into insignificance alongside them.
Quote: David Chapman @ July 11, 2007, 8:09 PMIt's just that my generation was spoiled by good English sitcoms. These yank ones just pale into insignificance alongside them.
Rose-tinted Glasses?
No - most definitely not. Steptoe, Likely Lads, Hancock.
Nowadays one Foot in the grave, Worst Week of my Life etc but the yanks still don't compare. They have a very strange sense of humour - not surreal - just not funny (in my opinion).
You named 3 out of 300 sitcoms from the 60's-70's. In 30 years time all I'll remember is my favourites as well.
Sitcoms need to move with the times, a lot of them from the 70's were about old fashioned men(mostly) dealing with the modern world of liberated woman, black people 
, ect. Now we're in these "modern times" we're going through another transition and your generation has now become that old fashioned man.
Oh Leevil, more respect for your elders.
You know it's true.
Quote: Leevil @ July 11, 2007, 9:26 PMSitcoms need to move with the times, a lot of them from the 70's were about old fashioned men(mostly) dealing with the modern world of liberated woman, black people
Do any of these American series deal with these aspects?
Not that I care because
A) I'm prejudiced against American "comedies" (see I admit it)
and B) I don't want "messages" in Comedy. I want to laugh.