A tip from each of us. Page 5

Quote: Griff @ December 30 2008, 12:49 AM GMT

By "how people talk" I just mean the phrases, idioms, styles of speech etc that different sorts of people typically use, rather than the exact content. I'm not talking about nuances, voice tones, pitches etc.

Why is this so controversial? I wish I'd never f**king said anything. What's so crazy about saying "If you're going to write a posh character, try and listen to some real posh people talking"?

I see so many sketches and sitcom extracts in Critique where people decide to write a posh person and write a load of caricatured pantomime rubbish "I say! What! What! Tally-ho!" when ten minutes of bothering to listen to actual posh people talk (on Radio Three if you can't find real ones) would give you a clue how upper class people actually talk. Similarly why not take five minutes to eavesdrop on the loudmouthed Mum in the doctor's waiting room shouting abuse at the receptionist. What words is she actually using? Or the middle-class twits in John Lewis debating which chenille throw would best suit the front room in their buy-to-let flat.

Next time writing tips come up maybe I'll just cut and paste something out of the user guide to Microsoft Word.

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I think writing's to complex to have fixed rules on what works.

Often I'm guilty of cliched dialogue, but usually for a purpose (and not just because I'm a remorseless sociopath who can't percieve others).

If I'm writing a 1 page sketch, then innit=chav or crivens=Scottish. Allows me in a handful of words to give you all the background you need before the inevitable nasty punchline.

But if I'm writing a character piece or heaven forfend a sitcom pilot then that language just sounds awful and fake.

And in that case a subtley modified version of real speach is just the ticket.

Who knows comedy writing seems to be as personal as how one urinates to some people.

Personally the rare times I goto my local Morrisons I curse myself for not bringing a dictaphone. The next 2 seasons of Karen Tate are floating around there.

And interesting technique I've used that amused me (and only me I suspect), is having cliched and natural characters side by side. Produced some interesting disonance humour.

n.b. Modern Toss seems to do very interesting stuff with ultra normal dialogue in bizarre situations.

Quote: Griff @ December 30 2008, 12:49 AM GMT

By "how people talk" I just mean the phrases, idioms, styles of speech etc that different sorts of people typically use, rather than the exact content. I'm not talking about nuances, voice tones, pitches etc.

Why is this so controversial? I wish I'd never f**king said anything. What's so crazy about saying "If you're going to write a posh character, try and listen to some real posh people talking"?

I see so many sketches and sitcom extracts in Critique where people decide to write a posh person and write a load of caricatured pantomime rubbish "I say! What! What! Tally-ho!" when ten minutes of bothering to listen to actual posh people talk (on Radio Three if you can't find real ones) would give you a clue how upper class people actually talk. Similarly why not take five minutes to eavesdrop on the loudmouthed Mum in the doctor's waiting room shouting abuse at the receptionist. What words is she actually using? Or the middle-class twits in John Lewis debating which chenille throw would best suit the front room in their buy-to-let flat....

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I don't think it's controversial at all, I think it's a valid tip. I also agree with you about caricatures-I wrote a sitcom and one of my characters was Eastern European and I wrote his lines the way I thought I'd heard them speak. And then I reread it and cringed. I felt like one of the writers of Are You Being Served? Not good.

On the cartoon series I loved that really boring couple having parties, and that animated squiggle came and ruined everything.

For no discernable reason.

The wanky actualite' dialogue made it work.

Quote: oldcowgrazing @ December 30 2008, 1:28 AM GMT

I don't think it's controversial at all, I think it's a valid tip. I also agree with you about caricatures-I wrote a sitcom and one of my characters was Eastern European and I wrote his lines the way I thought I'd heard them speak. And then I reread it and cringed. I felt like one of the writers of Are You Being Served? Not good.

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Problem is a lot of good comedy is quite ugly and agressive. Even Lead Balloon has the stereotypically humour less domestic.

I once wrote a script about a care home and had a real challenge.

How do I involve these characters in the joke, with out making them the joke and at the same time not making a bowl of politically correct muesli.

Quote: Griff @ December 30 2008, 1:30 AM GMT

Writing foreign characters is a f**king nightmare.

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What happened to your foot collecting character?

Quote: Griff @ December 30 2008, 1:30 AM GMT

Writing foreign characters is a f**king nightmare.

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Actually I meant to say I felt like one of the writers of Mind Your Language, not Are You being served?

You're right it is a nightmare to write foreign characters but they can make for very good material. Look at Magda from Lead Balloon*, she's a star.

* I had conceived my Eastern European character way before I clapped eyes on Lead Balloon.

Quote: Griff @ December 30 2008, 1:36 AM GMT

He's getting written out of the Sitcom Trials script this week, to be replaced by a Satanist.

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Shame I'dve liked to have seen him.

Quote: sootyj @ December 30 2008, 1:34 AM GMT

...Problem is a lot of good comedy is quite ugly and agressive. Even Lead Balloon has the stereotypically humour less domestic.

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True but I suspect the script directions read 'you are surly, uncooperative and deadpan' and that's where the magic was. Whereas in my script I wrote the characters mispronounciating words and phrases. Big difference.

....come to think of it quite a few of the characters in Lead Balloon are deadpan. The daughter, the daughter's boyfriend and Magda. Deadpan. Jack Dee's calling card.

*Channels other BSG members' thoughts: no shit, Sherlock!*

If you ever come across Funny Old Business my podcast play, check out hilarious Rumanian standup Marko.

It's like Borat but not funny!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Education-Hyman-Kaplan-Humour-Classics/dp/1853753823

But that book is a masterclass in how to do it well. And it's got a nice Wodehouseque sense of silly, good natured humour.

Re dialogue: Aim for naturalistic rather than realistic.

Re: Griff - totally agree with him on naturalistic dialogue. The art is seperating the content / payload from the style of speech. Once you grasp the style you can replace the content to suit your needs. Easier said than done though. Few people do it well and even they can be hit-or-miss. W Allen does this either brilliantly or jarring and poorly - sometimes in the same film.

Re: Lee - my unrequited love continues to grow for him. A decent guy and some great tips. Esp, carrying a notepad and being a good guy in a business that has few.

Re: Badge - on criticism - speaks the the truth. Especially when touching on humility (also partially hinted at in Lee's last tip). Some people regard humility as diminishing but (in it's best sense) it's one of the most desirable gifts a person can have, and it makes the lives of others far easier. Even the greatest talent should wear humility. But sadly it seems success and humility are inverse ... with notable exceptions.

Re: Mikey - Yes. Edit, edit, edit. Editing seperates the gem from the raw ore of the first draft.

My only tip (and I know it's really unpopular) is: Write every day, whether you feel like it or not, whether the output is good or otherwise. Sit in the same place, feel the pen, the paper, the keyboard, make the environment both familiar and welcoming. Then write. You'll probably never use the result but you're training the mind to respond, in a Pavlovian way, to your setting.

Ting! Ting! Dribble. Drool.

Get your stuff out there. It's far too easy to lock yourself away and write, and never actually submit your work anywhere.

Quote: SlagA @ December 30 2008, 11:14 AM GMT

Re: Lee - my unrequited love continues to grow for him. A decent guy and some great tips. Esp, carrying a notepad and being a good guy in a business that has few.

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Oh, you mean the other one...

Write in opposite arcs (works particularly well with thriller/horrors).

Example: If it's a completely demented nonsensical character, show the persons sanity in explaining the character's motivations and making it sound like the most understanding thing (even though it is nuts).

Or on the other hand if you're dealing with a sensible character who is always on the straight and narrow, show the persons chaos and/or insanity of that character's life.

Quote: Leevil @ December 30 2008, 1:04 PM GMT

Oh, you mean the other one...

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My love for you isn't unrequited ... I hope.