Oh Christ. 
Doctor Who... Page 250
Quote: Matthew Stott @ December 25 2008, 11:11 PM GMTIt was good, but they've slunk along in okays-ville since then. I hope the series of specials we get next year aren't just like the Christmas specials, otherwise it's going to be a long wait for Moffats new series. I do like the specials, I like any Who to some degree, but the Christmas specials are, I suppose, serving a different purpose to the series proper. That said, I can't wait for the next Christmas one, as obvioulsy it's going to be a big one what with Tennant regenerating.
I read he regenerates in the New Year's Special. It's supposed to be a 2-parter... New Year's Eve/New Years Day.
P.S. Zooo, I agree with the 5th Doctor. Peter Davison's great. 
There's a new year's eve special? Is that next year?
2009-2010.
Anyhoo.
Cyber king was when the episode lost any credibility IMO. And not enough Victoriana!
Also, it seemed to be walking constantly, and yet never going anywhere.
I LOVED the big cyber robot!
Was so non Doctor Who though.
Quote: Aaron @ December 25 2008, 11:50 PM GMTCyber king was when the episode lost any credibility IMO.
But there is no credibility at all in Dr Who anyway - you have to totally suspend your disbelief to enjoy. Cyber King did look really cool though.
It's maddening there's a great story in there; primitve cyber men, a man becoming the Dr out of desperation, loads of sly gags.
Then choked by a pat story, an uber villain who's only motivation is she's clever, silly effects, the Dr killing loads of people (and yes that includes cybermen) and idiotically naff Victoriana.
I have a suber cyber death army, built by orphans?
I think they should have a few more linked stories and give the stories some room to breath.
Quote: Moonstone @ December 25 2008, 11:54 PM GMTBut there is no credibility at all in Dr Who anyway - you have to totally suspend your disbelief to enjoy.
Only to an extent. There are limits. There's a point at which any creation can be pushed too far.
Quote: sootyj @ December 25 2008, 11:55 PM GMTidiotically naff Victoriana.
I knew that there was something else I was going to mention.
Agreed. 
Maddening thing is Who is great when it's simple; Dalek, Blink, that one where Rose saves her dad.
or long and thought out.
Silence in the Library, The Empty Child.
But when it's loud, short and silly it's just annoying.
The story about why some one would want to be the Dr, was intricate clever and funny.
At times it's like Russell T Davis loses faith in the writing.
Quote: Griff @ December 26 2008, 12:02 AM GMTThis is the difference between Davies and Moffatt. Moffatt attempts to create plots that have some kind of logic (eg Blink) whereas RTD only cares about spectacle. Personally, I find a story more involving if it makes sense - where actions have some kind of predictable consequences - rather than when it's just an extended pop video where anything and everything can happen, so who cares what happens.
Couldn't agree more. I'm often amazed at how old Twilight Zone and Star Trek episodes could really engage, by having clever stories, strong characters and solid plots.
Well it was his last one anyway. Wasn't it?
But annoyingly this episode kept being occaisonally brilliant.
Quote: Griff @ December 26 2008, 12:07 AM GMT*gets nostalgic for Pyramids Of Mars*
Great arc story, but Sutek's defences on Mars could have been beaten by any Fighting Fantasy geek.
Quote: Griff @ December 26 2008, 12:08 AM GMTI don't know? isn't he writing some of these 2009 specials? I bet he is.
It was certainly a great improvement on the Kylie fiasco.
That one was just head scratchingly bad. I mean it was bad enough to have needed Kevin Sorbino.
Quote: Griff @ December 26 2008, 12:10 AM GMTBut they would never have left their bedrooms to go to Mars in the first place.
Sutek is indeed wise.