I am an atheist... Page 7

Quote: Pete @ December 15 2008, 7:02 PM GMT

Not really - in the UK the tree is a symbol of a modern Christmas.....and a modern Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity. It has been hijacked by commercial/indifferent to religion forces...quite rightly!

I have a tree in my house to celebrate a modern (non-religious) Christmas and because it looks nice..........I can't think of a similar justification for a Christening as I see no reason for sane people to want to hijack a festival of that type.

Symbolic of what? I could give you a list of things Christmas symbolises to me that have nothing to do with God....what does a Christening symbol that is not religious?

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The Christmas Tree symbol is probably a residue from the anchient Winter Solistice festival, which preceeeded Christiantity by many many centuries. As before mentioned the festival was hijacked by Christianity.

Pagan religfion in Britain worshipped the Green Man (God of Nature) and certain groves of trees were sacred.

Apologies if someone has already said this (I can't be bothered to read all through this thread tonight) but I'd just like to point out that the tradition of Christmas trees and holly - and in fact a mid-winter festival - is from a pre-christian pagan tradition.

Quote: billwill @ December 15 2008, 7:37 PM GMT

The Christmas Tree symbol is probably a redisue from the anchient Winter Solistice festival, which preceeeded Christiantity by many many centuries. As before mentioned the festival was hijacked by Christianity.

Pagan religfion in Britain worshipped the Green Man (God of Nature) and certain groves of trees were sacred.

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Bill just said it. Half a minute before me.

Quote: Pete @ December 15 2008, 7:02 PM GMT

Not really - in the UK the tree is a symbol of a modern Christmas.....and a modern Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity. It has been hijacked by commercial/indifferent to religion forces...quite rightly!

I have a tree in my house to celebrate a modern (non-religious) Christmas and because it looks nice..........I can't think of a similar justification for a Christening as I see no reason for sane people to want to hijack a festival of that type.

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The tree is no longer symbolic to you in that way, but that's what it was intended for. What I'm trying to say is that dipping a baby in water was also Christian symbolism, but just like the tree people no longer see it as such. It's now just something that's done because it is/always has been! It's the same with the tree - there are a thousand things which would 'look nice' in your living room, but you choose to use a tree because that is now the tradition. As I said the only real difference is one is accompanied by words and the other is not, but it boils down to the same thing.

I don't know why people bring it up as such a bad thing? What harm is it doing?

Been reading this thread but withholding comment. General thought: if your definition of Christmas is different to someone else's and that definition legitimises your taking part in it then there is no debate ... for once. Hooray.

I love reading SootyJ's comments and I say this with respect to both parties involved, SootyJ is like a declawed Frankie. That statement makes sense to me and it's meant as a two-way compliment. Sooty's an explorer, a man of intrigue.

Quote: SlagA @ December 15 2008, 8:33 PM GMT

I love reading SootyJ's comments and I say this with respect to both parties involved, SootyJ is like a declawed Frankie. That statement makes sense to me and it's meant as a two-way compliment. Sooty's an explorer, a man of intrigue.

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Ravi

Quote: SlagA @ December 15 2008, 8:33 PM GMT

I love reading SootyJ's comments and I say this with respect to both parties involved, SootyJ is like a declawed Frankie. That statement makes sense to me and it's meant as a two-way compliment. Sooty's an explorer, a man of intrigue.

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sooty's funny (sometimes), seems to be a nice person, and Frankie can spell.

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 8:10 PM GMT

The tree is no longer symbolic to you in that way, but that's what it was intended for. What I'm trying to say is that dipping a baby in water was also Christian symbolism, but just like the tree people no longer see it as such. It's now just something that's done because it is/always has been! It's the same with the tree - there are a thousand things which would 'look nice' in your living room, but you choose to use a tree because that is now the tradition. As I said the only real difference is one is accompanied by words and the other is not, but it boils down to the same thing.

I don't know why people bring it up as such a bad thing? What harm is it doing?

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My point is....I can justify the tree to myself - I don't know how people having their kids Christened can justify the experience. In addition, because it is being done by a religious person in a religious place...I find it a little rude that these people impose themselves onto others to take just the little bit of that person's religion that they want. If a tree in my living room wasted the time and efforts of someone who felt I was doing it because I believed in what they do....I'd be polite enough to turn them down and go without a tree.

Bottom line - if my kids said "why the tree dad" I could explain to them why we have it, why Christians have it and why we all get what we want from the experience of having it. If they said "why are you making the vicar wash my head" I have no idea what I'd say other than...it's traditional (for people that believe in stuff we think is nonsense).

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 8:38 PM GMT

Ravi

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Just seen that and made me laugh.

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 8:38 PM GMT

Ravi

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eh?

God botherers really know how to suck the joy out of Christmas.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3c_1229133179

Merry thatmas and see you in the new year

Possibly.

Those are the loonies who protest at soldiers funerals.

Oh yes, that insane family!

They need to die quite soon.

>_<

Agreed.

That video is awful. Any form of religion that encourages hate (and gloating at suffering) really opposes everything they claim to stand for. To reduce hate in the world, the best place that group can start with is by eradicating the hate within themselves. Maybe they should be working soup kitchens and giving money to the needy, rather than wasting time and money on attending some poor sod's funeral and making such videos.

I had no problem confusing these people with god-botherers because they clearly aren't. I don't think there's any religion who'd gladly incorporate them... well, maybe scientology?

Oi leave scientology alone!

I'll have you you audited.

Nothing wrong with scientology! If billions can belive in Adam and Eve and all that twaddle then I have no problem with a few people wanting to belive in aliens!