I am an atheist... Page 6

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 6:24 PM GMT

And also, with Christmas you are worshipping in a tacet way - the tree for example is supposed to be a symbol of the holy trinity because of its triangular shape.

View original

It's also a German thing, so subconsciously we're praising the Fatherland.

No.

The western world was built on Christianity. If you got pissy about anything with some kind of meaning, no matter whether you or anyone else acknowledge or accept that meaning, then you'd live a very sad, pathetic existence.

Quote: Aaron @ December 15 2008, 6:36 PM GMT

The western world was built on Christianity. If you got pissy about anything with some kind of meaning, no matter whether you or anyone else acknowledge or accept that meaning, then you'd live a very sad, pathetic existence.

View original

Just like that Christmas South Park episode!

Quote: zooo @ December 15 2008, 6:33 PM GMT

But I think there are other ways to be traditional, without religion being a part of it.

View original

Such asssssssss?

Liiiike, doing it in an amazing old mansion or a castle.

Would be even better than a church, I reckon.

Quote: Aaron @ December 15 2008, 6:36 PM GMT

The western world was built on Christianity. If you got pissy about anything with some kind of meaning, no matter whether you or anyone else acknowledge or accept that meaning, then you'd live a very sad, pathetic existence.

View original

My point though was that bringing an object into your house which is meant to be a symbol of the trinity is really no different than allowing a vicar to dip your baby in water in the name of Jesus or whatever - which is also just symbolic in some way. Only difference being one is tacet and the other is not.
Really, I see no harm in either.

Quote: zooo @ December 15 2008, 5:27 PM GMT

I felt a bit uncomfortable at my niece's Christening, we all had to like join in and make promises and stuff to do with religion. Me and my (atheist) brother just stood there sort of mouthing along (like when you pretend to sing in school assembly). It would just be nice if there was a little non religious option, so we could still feel included and relevant.

So if someone asked me to be a God parent, I would say yes, but it would be nicer if there was a non religious equivalent I could do instead.

View original

A lot of people go for naming ceremonies nowadays - much more honest if you are not Christian.

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 6:42 PM GMT

My point though was that bringing an object into your house which is meant to be a symbol of the trinity is really no different than allowing a vicar to dip your baby in water in the name of Jesus or whatever - which is also just symbolic in some way. Only difference being one is tacet and the other is not.
Really, I see no harm in either.

View original

Not really - in the UK the tree is a symbol of a modern Christmas.....and a modern Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity. It has been hijacked by commercial/indifferent to religion forces...quite rightly!

I have a tree in my house to celebrate a modern (non-religious) Christmas and because it looks nice..........I can't think of a similar justification for a Christening as I see no reason for sane people to want to hijack a festival of that type.

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 6:42 PM GMT

which is also just symbolic in some way

View original

Symbolic of what? I could give you a list of things Christmas symbolises to me that have nothing to do with God....what does a Christening symbol that is not religious?

Quote: Loopey @ December 15 2008, 6:49 PM GMT

A lot of people go for naming ceremonies nowadays - much more honest if you are not Christian.

View original

Yeah I like the sound of that a lot more.
But obviously you have to all be of a similar non-religious type.

Unless the parents are mega nice and do both, so everyone's involved.

I thought that the definition of Christmas was that it is an annual holiday to celebrate and honour the birth of Jesus so if you say you are celebrating Christmas then isn't that what you are doing?

Perhaps if we differentiated between celebrating Christmas and enjoying the Christmas holidays there would be less conflict of opinion.

Everyone has a different definition of Christmas. That's the good thing about it.

Quote: Loopey @ December 15 2008, 7:10 PM GMT

I thought that the definition of Christmas was that it is an annual holiday to celebrate and honour the birth of Jesus

View original

Not in 2008 in the UK.

Like it or not, there are two groups who use Christmas as a celebration. Those who are religious and those who want to celebrate a time of good will to family and friends with all the festivities that go with it.

You can easily celebrate Christmas for the latter reason and have no sign of God but it's hard to celebrate for the former and not have signs of unreligious commercialism. In a way, the religious folks are nicking the atheist celebratory techniques for their own use!

People that moan "the real meaning is being lost" are WRONG.....the real meaning (to them) is alive and well....they're just looking at people like me and mistakenly thinking I'm celebrating THIER Christmas when I'm actually doing nothing of the sort.

Edited by Aaron.

Quote: zooo @ December 15 2008, 6:40 PM GMT

Liiiike, doing it in an amazing old mansion or a castle.

Would be even better than a church, I reckon.

View original

Yeah, but terribly cold and clinical without some of the stuff you loathe.

Quote: Moonstone @ December 15 2008, 6:42 PM GMT

My point though was that bringing an object into your house which is meant to be a symbol of the trinity is really no different than allowing a vicar to dip your baby in water in the name of Jesus or whatever - which is also just symbolic in some way. Only difference being one is tacet and the other is not.
Really, I see no harm in either.

View original

Oh right, I see.

Should have found out what "tacet" meant before posting.

Quote: Aaron @ December 15 2008, 7:18 PM GMT

Yeah, but terribly cold and clinical without some of the stuff you loathe.

View original

Not at all - I've been to weddings on the beach and in a castle (and in churches) - they all have the potential to be wonderful (only one has the potential to make you look a hypocrite).

Ok, perhaps "Yeah, but to me terribly cold and clinical..." would have been more correct then.

Quote: Pete @ December 15 2008, 7:17 PM GMT

Not in 2008 in the UK.

Like it or not, there are two groups who use Christmas as a celebration. Those who are religious and those who want to celebrate a time of good will to family and friends with all the festivities that go with it.

You can easily celebrate Christmas for the latter reason and have no sign of God but it's hard to celebrate for the former and not have signs of unreligious commercialism. In a way, the religious folks are nicking the atheist celebratory techniques for their own use!

People that moan "the real meaning is being lost" are WRONG.....the real meaning (to them) is alive and well....their just looking at people like me and mistakenly thinking I'm celebrating THIER Christmas when I'm actually doing nothing of the sort.

View original

I see your point but that is a bit of a generalisation - surely there is room for Christians and non Christians to celebrate however they see fit without judging each other. I was referring to the dictionary definition of Christmas and therefore what it is that people claim to be celebrating when they use that word.
i.e. celebrating Christmas (the celebration of the birth of Jesus) and having no sign of God, is a bit of a contradiction, so surely non-Christians are enjoying the holiday and all those things that go with it, rather than actually celebrating the fact that it is Christmas, as per its definition.

Goodwill to family, friends and everyone else can never be wrong, whatever the reason or words we use to describe it.