Quote: zooo @ December 8 2008, 4:06 PM GMTBut pleeease don't do the old patronising, 'you can't possibly know until you've got kids of your own' thing.
I hate that too. You only have to look at half the plankton who have kids in this country to realise that having them is nothing special and doesn't bestow you with any great wisdom.
Our first child found out via school friends at 8 or 9 I suppose....to avoid her telling the others* we told her brother when he was 6 ish and his brother, who's 5, has a good idea it's a story. We'll tell the todller when he's 5 as well.
*The main reason is the value of money....I don't want the kids thinking that the gifts are "free"...someone has worked hard for them!
I also tell them that the stories they hear about Jesus, tooth fairy, etc and just stories.......so why not tell them Santa's the same? I'd rather they were happy with gifts from me than gifts from a fairy tale.....same as I want them thanking their mum for Christmas dinner and not some 2000 year old dead bloke.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 3:47 PM GMTSeriously though...I personally wish I didn't have to lie to my 6 year old about Santa. We constantly tell our kids that it's wrong to tell lies so what message are they getting when they finally find out their own parents have been telling the biggest whopper of all?
I've raised this point before with friends before and as parents they're just not ready to face the argument, and usually become defensive and angry that I'm bringing it up. I put this down to a sense of guilt. They're all "Oh shut up, let the kids believe in magic for a while" but that's not the real reason they're getting irate. They're getting irate because every parent at some point is dreading the day they have to 'fess up to their teary-eyed kids and tell them that Santa's all a big fat lie.
What're your views? Does it annoy you that we have to go through this charade? After all it's not like we can send our kids off to school at an early age, armed with the truth. We know what would happen - kids would get into arguments over Santa, parents of other kids would get angry with you for "spoiling" their kids Christmas by letting the the cat out of the bag.
I don't know - I've just never felt comfortable about bullshitting kids about the existence of a magical being, knowing only too well how much it's going to hurt when we have to tell them the truth.
You don't have to tell your kids. They just find out.
Unless they're retarded obviously, in which case you'd probably just let them carry on believing indefinitely.
Quote: zooo @ December 8 2008, 3:52 PM GMTI'm one of those saps that believes the magic of Christmas is more important than anything else.
And to be honest, if your kid has any brains they'll slowly figure out the Father Christmas thing for themselves.
Prezunctly.
Quote: zooo @ December 8 2008, 4:06 PM GMTI still partly like to believe in Father Christmas even now, so it's all part of the fun to me.
Quote: Aaron @ December 8 2008, 4:21 PM GMTUnless they're retarded obviously, in which case you'd probably just let them carry on believing indefinitely.
Partly retarded?
Haha!
Touche.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:02 PM GMTI clearly remember the day I found out about Santa Claus. A kid at my school called Karl Purvis told me he was made up. I was about 7 I think. I went home and told my Mum, who said he was being silly. Then later on at bedtime Dad came into my room and said Karl was right, there is no Father Christmas. I was like "But you've always said there is!", and my Dad got angry and told me to go to sleep and forget about it. And then I cried myself to sleep. Partly because there was no Santa, but mostly because Mum and Dad had been lying to me for ever. So Zooo, that really wasn't a very magical Christmas that year.
:/
Quote: zooo @ December 8 2008, 4:06 PM GMTYou obviously had a bad time of it, so tell your kids what you want, but I managed to figure it out slowly, and it was fine. I still partly like to believe in Father Christmas even now, so it's all part of the fun to me.
In my own case, if I were to have kids, I would tell them something like some people believe in Santa and some don't, nobody really knows... leave a bit of excitement and mystery.
I don't think it's particularly nice to slam it to 'em straight, 'there's no such thing', at least give them a choice.
Ditto, agreed, etc. 
Quote: chipolata @ December 8 2008, 4:12 PM GMTI hate that too. You only have to look at half the plankton who have kids in this country to realise that having them is nothing special and doesn't bestow you with any great wisdom.
Quote: Pete @ December 8 2008, 4:21 PM GMTPartly retarded?
No, you're whole-retarded.
Quote: chipolata @ December 8 2008, 4:12 PM GMTI hate that too. You only have to look at half the plankton who have kids in this country to realise that having them is nothing special and doesn't bestow you with any great wisdom.
Your outlook and perspective on life completely changes when you have kids of your own. There is one group of people on this forum who'll disagree with me, and that's people with no kids yet. That's because you don't know what the f**k I'm talking about. Sorry if that sounds patronising.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 1:02 PM GMT
So that's the Matt Damon Sean Connerry meetup everyone's been talking about?
This always happens when I bring this subject up - people get defensive and annoyed.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:33 PM GMTYour outlook and perspective on life completely changes when you have kids of your own. There is one group of people on this forum who'll disagree with me, and that's people with no kids yet. That's because you don't know what the f**k I'm talking about. Sorry if that sounds patronising.
I would absolutely assume one's outlook changes when something as huge as having kids happens.
It's the use of the phrase as if we've never thought of such an idea that feels patronising, not the concept itself.
(Oh and the fact that some people (not you!) use that as a fallback argument when confronted with anything they don't have an answer to.)
Quote: Aaron @ December 8 2008, 4:21 PM GMTYou don't have to tell your kids. They just find out.
Prezunctly.
But then they'll ask me. And I have to tell them.
Quote: zooo @ December 8 2008, 4:37 PM GMTI would absolutely assume one's outlook changes when something as huge as having kids happens.
It's the use of the phrase as if we've never thought of such an idea that feels patronising, not the concept itself.
So it has crossed your mind in the past then?
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 3:47 PM GMTWe know what would happen - kids would get into arguments over Santa, parents of other kids would get angry with you for "spoiling" their kids Christmas by letting the the cat out of the bag.
It doesn't happen....my kids don't tell the Muslims that Allah's pretend or the Christians that jesus is a story......and they don't tell kids "Santa's not real".
Most kids are pretty sensible and won't do someting to make themselves stand out like that.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:40 PM GMTSo it has crossed your mind in the past then?
What has?
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:36 PM GMTThis always happens when I bring this subject up - people get defensive and annoyed.
Not just this subject. We were as defensive as annoyed when you talked about alien pandas raping you. 
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:33 PM GMTYour outlook and perspective on life completely changes when you have kids of your own. There is one group of people on this forum who'll disagree with me, and that's people with no kids yet. That's because you don't know what the f**k I'm talking about. Sorry if that sounds patronising.
Having ... a limited semi-experience of having kids, I know I'll never change. I can understand that others are weak and immature enough to need to grow up though.
Quote: Lee Henman @ December 8 2008, 4:40 PM GMTBut then they'll ask me. And I have to tell them.
Not necessarily.
And you're imposing your particualrly bad experience and handling of the realisation on other children.
