Quote: charley rance @ January 21, 2007, 5:58 PMI am not retaliating to you Dyingtolive.
forgetfull old bint aren't we.....
Rough Idea Page 5
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Quote: dyingtolive @ January 21, 2007, 6:13 PMforgetfull old bint aren't we.....
Hahahahahaha!
Fair play...Now stop it.
I bet it is not just boring for us now but for everybody else.
A big cuddle and a kiss and a shake of hands please.
Ps, i did like your 15 year old comment. It made me giggle.....
Now please can we drop this and be nice to each other.
Agree to Disagree i say.
xx
Debate in itself is fine and healthy, ladies and gentlemen, but calling each other twats, etc, is going beyond the scope of a debate and is now becoming personalised. Charley has defended her corner well (although I wouldn't agree with her stance) and has been unafraid to voice her opinion, which is as it should be in such forums.
Please make points (forcefully and emotively if needed) without the need to personalise it with insulting words aimed at specific users. No one (except the forum owners) has the right to tell people to frequent or not frequent this forum over a disagreement.
I'm not worried about who started what and I'll be inclined to ignore the previous posts of this afternoon (I was detained watching the footie) but will ask people to edit out their personal jibes if this continues. As a last resort, I'd hate to delete the thread when up 'til now it's been an excellent debate on formal / informal use of english on forums dedicated to writing.
This is THE BEST forum on the Internet, lively, friendly, informative. Please help keep it this way.
Debate, yes. Debacle, no.
Write some sketches for them and see how they work out, fine trim them.
I hadn't seen this thread before. I'll give it a proper read now it's been bumped in effect.
I see Charley's managed to wind someone else up!
I agree with SlagA (and some others’) comments on the subject of spelling and grammar. In fact, bad posts… streams of consciousness, incorrect spelling… failure to use apostrophes and so on are my pet hate.
I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for people to check their work before they post. A lot of us here are aspiring writers... so why not act like it? I’ll expand on SlagA’s comment about the bricklayer… in that even if this bricklayer’s personal presentation resonated with you… if he built you the ‘rough idea’ of a wall, which wasn’t solid and didn’t behave like a real wall, perhaps because it had bricks made of porridge… you’d be pretty reluctant to pay him.
Real problems (such as dyslexia) aside, I implore people not to treat this forum as a dumping ground for their mental diarrhoea. Don’t get me wrong, I love to read through the ideas here and charley’s, for one, are some of the most entertaining in my opinion. But please, try to practice what you (presumably) eventually want to preach. It’s not difficult but it will require that you check over your work before you post… *gasp* maybe even more than once!
If you find you’re struggling with grammar etc. then there are many people here, including myself, who will gladly help. It’s difficult, I realise, when you’re told something is ‘wrong’. But don’t get defensive. Just do it right next time.
It’s good practice to get things right on this forum first. It’s simply not good enough to imagine that this environment is not worth the bother. That insults me as a member and speaks volumes about your own intentions. If all you’re after is some back-scratching from a few other members you’re friendly with then don’t worry about it. Keep posting as you have. You’ll have reiterated your position as old ‘wacky so and so’ but have advanced not a jot. That would be a shame.
I’ve tried (and failed) to read many posts here… giving up in most cases because I didn’t have the time to struggle through and therefore, sadly, missed out on the actual idea(s). Not that my time is necessarily any more precious that the next person’s of course… but if I can’t do it (and I’m nobody), then the editor at your favourite production company won’t be able to either. And he or she will take great joy in throwing your precious ideas in the bin. Do you want that?
Essentially, if you want people to critique your ideas/script/sketch on this forum and not the spelling, grammar and so on… get the foundations sorted. They’ll have no choice then, to see it as you want them to see it. Stop making excuses. Take pride in your work.
Like anything else this is a discipline. If you sent out something to a company or producer, and it had grammatical errors, spelling, they are not going to look upon it as favourably as they would a piece of work which has been checked.
The main reason is the pace, rhythm and timing of a piece changes if you have to constantly, even subconciously adjust to spelling and grammatical foibles. It doesn't help the writer, either, because your focus changes somewhat when checking your work.
If you are serious about writing - any sort of writing - get the basics right. It doesn't matter if the idea doesn't fly, it's taking pride in what you do and reducing the chances of failiure.
Act professionally, and you will be treated professionally.
Quote: SlagA @ January 21, 2007, 6:37 PMDebate in itself is fine and healthy, ladies and gentlemen, but calling each other twats, etc, is going beyond the scope of a debate and is now becoming personalised. Charley has defended her corner well (although I wouldn't agree with her stance) and has been unafraid to voice her opinion, which is as it should be in such forums.
<snip>This is THE BEST forum on the Internet, lively, friendly, informative. Please help keep it this way.
Debate, yes. Debacle, no.
Personal abuse is never acceptable. Unless the cheque has cleared.
This is just another thread that leads straight into old territory about applying to the basic rule of thumb when it comes to writing. Not only does it show a sheer bloody laziness by the writer but also a blatant disregard towards the reader.
Think how many times a writer has blithely declared that the work submitted to the critique was done in a matter of minutes, as if that was something to be proud of. Obviously they wanted to know what others thought but when the blindingly obvious is pointed out, that's when the abuse starts.
Generally speaking it's like dealing with a young or special child, and I get kind of cheesed off by the alarming regularity this happens by people who are so clearly ill-equipped to work it out for themselves.
It's just so f**king depressing.
Quote: Baumski @ June 28, 2007, 12:04 PMIt's just so f**king depressing.
LOL! It is something that can be fixed though, in those that are willing to improve.
Unfortunately for the 'anarchists' amongst us, the English language has rules... 
Oh God! Who brought this thread back to life. *groans* Now I have to say something. *Groans louder*
This I think was way back when I first started here. Or shortly after.
I have just read through it all. Feisty little bitch aint I. Well I still stick to everything I say. Mostly due to the bad spelling, grammer of the person moaning about the bad spelling. Pot calling and all.
Now I have said before so excuse the parrotism. My friend is a dyslexic romance writer. Several books. Keeps her in her big house. Her agent I believe, has to redo lots of her work. Should she have never been given a chance and left those women who read her work, without starry eyes & wondering why their men cant be romantic?
If I am going to be made to feel embarrassed every time I post something then I will leave. I dont have the time to be made to feel beneath anyone. I am no less a person because of my spelling or grammer issues. I have a fab friend who is superb at English who goes through my work like a madman whenever I wish it to be corrected. They have offered to go through everything should I wish to send it off. I will not bother them for every post I want to do. Some people here are amazingly good at English. Thats great. So of course they will feel more highly and righteous. I am jealous but I am not going to grizzle about it.
Just incase a point was being made towards me. I will retaliate when I am being abused. It is part of my personality. I have been given lots of critical comments on my work. Always fairly with no back handed comments from me. Go through them all if you wish & see for yourself. When someone is clearly out to bait me, as they did with someone else, I will retaliate.
Now work out what you all want & let me know. If you only want people on this board with great english & my shoddy spelling offends you so much I will leave. Like I say. I have no time to feel beneath anyone. I am not a thief or murderer. I give to charity & I am their to help anyone in need. I am a nice person. I am not beneath anyone fankoo.
Quote: charley rance @ June 28, 2007, 2:42 PMI have no time to feel beneath anyone... I am not beneath anyone...
Is this some kind of Freudian thing?
Hang on Charlie, t'was me applauding you the other day for defending the forum against the increasing use of text-speak that was creeping in.
Yes, you've got me on a cleft stick again, because I see what you're saying but head and heart disagree. I personally think that this recent opening of the thread is less to do with you than it was months ago. You're neater and clearer and it's (imo) easier to look at your pieces now. So don't let the heat of those past exchanges get us all riled up.
Arguing that people who know the rules see themselves as higher and mightier, that's more to do with how people put themselves across rather than the desire to work to the rules of English. A driver who broke the rules of the highway code wouldn't have much of a case with the judge when they defend their lack of knowledge of the road laws by saying "All those good drivers are so high and mighty and if they don't like the way I drive then tough". I know it's not strictly the same, one is a legal law, one is a system of non-legal laws. But the script-reader will still pass a judgement (valid or not) on our presentation and command of rules.
Re: your romantic writer friend - if she had the books published as they were (without editing) then she wouldn't have been as successful a writer because people would put the book down. So the point isn't valid because the books are pre-screened for errors and grammar (as are all manuscripts) and you're not seeing a true test of the effect of poor presentation on a readership.
Not only that dyslexia is a condition that can't be helped, which isn't the same as Baumski (and others) point out as lazy presentation and lack of consideration for the reader, which can.
I agree with some of your points SlagA. I used my dyslexic friend to make a point like you did with the highway code. I retract that point of mine. Of course she has a reason. What about those of us who are not as great at spelling or others. Does that make us lazy or just not as good at something as others. Does it mean that because I may miss-spell or not put a comma where a comma should go, unable to try writing as a possible means. I think not. You cant change my views on that.
I have someone who will correct all my incorrections. An english teacher.Who has looked over my stuff and changed it & critiqued it.
I have friends that are way way way more intelligent than I and of the same intelligence. Those friends who have masters degrees dont belittle me because I may not understand something. I have a chef friend who I ring up on occasions to try a new meal. He doesnt say "Fook me Charley you should know how to cook a decent steak by now" I will not feel belittled. So what. I cant spell every english word. Jesus! I may have a very good reason for not being able to go through school or college and learn. Maybe that part of my brain does not work aswell. I have stated I would NEVER send something out without it being fully checked by a friend of mine. I will cease to put anything on here if my (There should be correctly spelt Their) & i get picked up for it.
Here is an example of MY opinion on the matter.
My son Jack is a terrible terrible speller. Far worse than me. His brother is far far better. On an open evening his english teacher showed me some of his work. This was his comment.
Jack's imagination is amazing. His work especialy when writing a story,is always the one to be read out in class. He has the ability to make people laugh, cry and smile. yet It takes me twice as long to read it as most others.
So from that I get. Jacks imagination is one of the best, his spelling is the worst. So some of those kids who get an A for spelling dont have as great imagination. To me that evens itself out.
I wish I had an amazing imagination & I wish I could spell. I cant.
What is the difference between writing something right or maybe doing the odd thing wrong. The story is still there. If people are willing for professionals to evaluate their work before sending it to the peeps who DO have the right to be critical on that aspect. Where is the harm. Why is it such a big deal. Some people are not as clever as others at Some things. That does not make someone unable to try something because of that.
I can't think if I've belittled you (I haven't read through the old part of this thread) but you should know that I wouldn't do it by design. Don't even think that way of me. I wouldn't even want to accidentally belittle you (or anyone else). But if I have, then I apologise. A real one too, not a half-mumbled one.
If you knew me in real life, I'm very unassuming, almost mouselike, and I'd be horrified to think I'd insulted someone. But I think that my words sometimes come across as cold and harsh, when they're not intended that way.
From memory, I know that this thread went from a good debate to a bit of a debacle tho thankfully nothing like recent 'debates'. And if you read my last comments on it, I had to warn people to lay off you (not that you needed my feeble intervention). I had nothing but respect for you even though I didn't agree with all your points but in fairness I didn't agree totally with those oppossing you either.
But I think the main drive of this thread was (at its conclusion) driving to the idea that in an era of spellcheckers that spelling shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Grammar is more of a problem because the best spellcheckers can't really handle it to any reliable degree but even the Word one will highlight possible dodgy areas.
I guess yes, there is a difference between those wanting to be pro and those having a less ambitious attiude and this is where the friction arises. And I understand when people log on, tired and stressed, that after reading several sketches / scripts that are poorly laid out and badly presented that it becomes less fun than it should be.
Honestly, Charley, I don't think the recent comments on this thread were raised specifically with you in mind. Yours have been some of the most improved work in recent months imo. I only replied on some of your points, no malice aforethought. Honest.
Friends? 