Adventures in the Screen Trade is a good read and very insightful, if slightly terrifying in its core message: "Nobody in Hollywood knows anything and what gets made is mostly blind luck".
What's the best book you've read about writing? Page 2
I agree that "how to write" books are generally unreadable. But there are loads of biography/essay type books by good writers which are great and have useful stuff in.
William Goldman, Rob Long and Stephen King have already been mentioned. There's a whole series of Simon Gray memoirs about putting on his plays, such as An Unnatural Pursuit, The Smoking Diaries, and particularly Fat Chance where he has to deal with Stephen Fry walking out. Conversations with Ayckbourn and The Crafty Art of Playmaking by Ayckbourn. Various David Mamet books, like Writing in Restaurants. I've never liked Steve Martin but Born Standing Up - A Comic's Tale is surprisingly good.
But my favourite is Rewrites by Neil Simon, about his progress from sketch-writer to t.v. writer to playwright and screen writer. It's very readable and he has lots of useful advice, particularly about the importance of constantly listening to the audience and rewriting in response. He's never satisfied with his work and you can see how as a result he hones it to perfection.
I'd like to know how many writers with Story on their shelves ever actually finished it. You can count me as one that didn't.
I haven't even started mine. And judging by the reviews on this thread I guess it's taking up two inches of shelf space for no good reason.
Quote: John Kelly @ October 18 2008, 10:30 AM BSTBut my favourite is Rewrites by Neil Simon, about his progress from sketch-writer to t.v. writer to playwright and screen writer. It's very readable and he has lots of useful advice, particularly about the importance of constantly listening to the audience and rewriting in response. He's never satisfied with his work and you can see how as a result he hones it to perfection.
Thanks John, I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of that - sounds interesting. It sounds similar to the Russell T Davies book. There are rewrites to compare; you see the pressure he's under when a deadline is looming, and witness all the self-doubt and despair that comes with being a writer.
Is any writer ever satisfied with his work? I know I'm not. All you can do is rewrite, rewrite and rewrite, until you're sick! Even then, I don't think you can ever be completely satisfied. I've been working on a 90 minute drama script now for about a year and I'm only just at the stage where I feel it's almost ready for sending out. But everytime I look at it, I find a way to improve it, tweak it. Only when I can't find a single improvment to make will it go out.
Even then I probably won't believe it's any good.
Quote: Rustle T Davis @ October 18 2008, 11:47 AM BSTThanks John, I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of that - sounds interesting. It sounds similar to the Russell T Davies book. There are rewrites to compare; you see the pressure he's under when a deadline is looming, and witness all the self-doubt and despair that comes with being a writer.
Is any writer ever satisfied with his work? I know I'm not. All you can do is rewrite, rewrite and rewrite, until you're sick! Even then, I don't think you can ever be completely satisfied. I've been working on a 90 minute drama script now for about a year and I'm only just at the stage where I feel it's almost ready for sending out. But everytime I look at it, I find a way to improve it, tweak it. Only when I can't find a single improvment to make will it go out.
Even then I probably won't believe it's any good.
"An artist never really finishes his work. He merely abandons it." - Paul Valery.
Quote: David H @ October 18 2008, 12:10 PM BST"An artist never really finishes his work. He merely abandons it." - Paul Valery.
Perfect.
Griff.
You have to read Story even if most people agree that Mc'Kee is a gobshite and that he is contradictory.
McKee is the benchmark approach to screenwriting for script editors and you have to constantly argue for or againt McKee's approach when slugging it out with the script editor.
He has worked himself into an annoying niche of everybody having to read his work even if he is ridiculous.
Of course I haven't worked with a script editor yet but big screenwriters in the industry drill this into people.
Is "The Writer's Tale" good even if you don't watch Doctor Who?
Quote: Mike Greybloke @ October 18 2008, 3:30 PM BSTIs "The Writer's Tale" good even if you don't watch Doctor Who?
Hard to say really; as I imagine most people buying it will be. But I do think it gives a very clear insight into the working life of a writer.
I have a small collection of writing books:
Writing for Television by Gerald Kelsey
How to be a Sitcom Writer by Marc Blake
How to be a Comedy Writer by Marc Blake
The Elements of Style by Strunk & White
Writing Sitcoms by John Byrne & Marcus Powell
Writing Television Sitcoms by Evan S Smith
The Comic Toolbox by John Vorhaus
The Eight Characters of Comedy by Scott Sedita
Writing Dialogue for Scripts by Rib Davis
Creating Unforgetable Characters by Linda Seger
Characters & Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card
How to Make money Scriptwriting by Julian Friedmann
A couple of good ones here include The Comic Toolbox, Marc Blakes Sitcoms, and the book on dialogue by Rib Davis.
Def.
Quote: Mike Greybloke @ October 18 2008, 3:30 PM BSTIs "The Writer's Tale" good even if you don't watch Doctor Who?
I've been pondering this and I guess, if you never watch the programme, there would be chunks of it that wouldn't appeal, and you may not understand some of the joke references.
I would suggest picking it up in a book shop and randomly reading a few pages. If it doesn't appeal then, don't buy it.
Has anyone here who isn't a fan of the programme read it?
I'd be interested to know the answer to this myself.
Ref: rewriting...
As it is too with song writing, most of the time (99.9%) a great song isn't written, it's re-written.
There's the odd occasion where the writer of a great song claims it just came out of thin air as an almost finished piece and I think it can happen with lyric and/or melody, but not often.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 17 2008, 5:32 PM BSTI read a book in the last year or so called "Writing comedy" by John Byrne which wasn't bad.
Agreed.
Quote: David Bussell @ October 18 2008, 9:44 AM BSTI'd like to know how many writers with Story on their shelves ever actually finished it. You can count me as one that didn't.
I did as I went on the course too. It was intense. But a really good eye-opener, it gave me an appreciation for story telling and the smallest details. I'm not saying its the best book as I don't apply a lot of it but its a very detailed looked at story-telling.
Quote: ContainsNuts @ October 20 2008, 9:28 AM BSTI did as I went on the course too. It was intense. But a really good eye-opener, it gave me an appreciation for story telling and the smallest details. I'm not saying its the best book as I don't apply a lot of it but its a very detailed looked at story-telling.
I have the book unread on my shelf, my dad bought it I borrowed it. I did go on his course once though and John Cleese was there and Connie Booth was across the room. They didn't talk to each other, but I did show Connie how to operate an English public phone!!
I thought it was very useful.