Harry Enfield - Racist? Sexist? Northernist? Page 4

The Welsh shag sheep. The Northern Irish are violent. The English are arrogant. The Scots are alcoholics. These stereotypes have been on television for as long as I can remember. I don't go in a huff when a Scotsman is portrayed as an alcoholic, and even if I did complain nothing would get done about it and rightly so. Yet some foreigners kick up a stink about what WE broadcast in this country and suddenly it's turned into a big f**king issue. I'm astonished that this silly petition has garnered so much publicity.

Quote: Tommy Power @ October 8 2008, 2:04 PM BST

True enough. It all depends on where you come from (literally). Filipinos might not be prepared to take it in good humour if it is too close to the truth for those in menial jobs; (B) an image they are made to live with on a daily basis which they want to reject and forget.

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Fair comment.

Well, they've reacted as they think fit.

Quote: sootyj @ October 8 2008, 10:58 PM BST

Taking pleasure in ignorance is like enjoying not being toilet trained.

It may be unintentionally racist, but it's still racist.

And frankly I despise the attitude that the only real racists wear swastikas and white hoods.

And let's ditch the word racism. Harry Enfield belittled the experiences and insulted needlessly a big group of people.

Maybe by accident, but the hurt was real. Or are we living in a world where any insult is ok if it's for a laugh.

They're people with every right to feel proud and happy in them selves. If that offends you so deeply might I suggest you take a long look in the mirror.

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Oh get lost, really; you're now calling me ignorant, or an unknowing racist? If so you can f**k right off. You are a someone who looks for offence everywhere; I don't think you could call the sketch racist, or offensive, and I'm perfectly fine with the way I see the world. Ever thought you might just be over sensitive to this stuff? I despise racism, but not this sketch-because it isn't. I'm frankly pissed off with you.

Quote: Lee Henman @ October 9 2008, 1:28 AM BST

If the Filipino maid character had been replaced with a Swedish Au Pair, would it be as "offensive"?

Or how about if the maid was replaced with a Geordie slag, complete with white stilettos, boob tube and badly-applied fake leg-tan? Would that be offensive? Course not. Totally acceptable.

Stereotypes are funny, whichever way you look at it. All the great comedy characters are based on stereotypes. The stupid one. The sexy one. The deluded one. the racist one. And race is such a subjective thing anyway. Look at Apu in The Simpsons. A money-obsessed Asian immigrant, selling substandard, out-of-date crap in his corner shop for ridiculously-inflated prices. Now is that a fair representation of ALL Asian corner shop owners? Of course not. But it's a perfect facsimile of the guy that runs Ali's round the corner from my Dad. Does that make me a racist, even recognizing the similarity between Ali and Apu? Would the character of Apu even get past the first draft stage in a British show? No way. But because it's an American show we let it slide.

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Well there we go; what he says is TRUE.

Yes. Lee's got it spot-on.

I'm a firm believer that every character is a stereotype. No writer can just create one out of thin air, with no stimuli or inspiration in any way from anyone he has ever met or seen. Put a child in isolation from birth, and they might be able to draw an exaggerated stereotype version of themselves in a few years, but it still wouldn't be original, and they wouldn't be able to go any further than that because they have no stimuli to do so.

Whether one chooses to see a stereotype as being offensive is, like comedy, and like beauty, "in the eye of the beholder". But never forget one thing, no matter how innocent or abhorrent you may find a character: all stereotypes are based on fact. Like Lee's dad, whichever writer created Apu, had a guy just like that running his local store when he was a kid.

And Matthew, sooty's a social worker, IIRC. Of course he's looking for offence where there is none. It's the job description.

Quote: paul f @ October 9 2008, 1:30 AM BST

The English are arrogant.

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Not heard of this one before.

Well firstly I liked the sketch like Harry and Paul and it made me laugh.

I wouldn't ban it, I wouldn't ban anything really.

The funny thing is how sensitive people are to being called racist, sad really, we all are a little bit.

Certainly if you look at a lot of my stuff you can call me a racist, sexist, specist what ever. Being racist isn't bad in it's self, when it hurts people it deserves more consideration.

Swedish au pairs and Geordies with big tits don't have a nasty history of being abused by their employers.

Filipino maids do, in this country. Mainly by expat Saudis now (guess that makes me a racist)

All I did was acknowledge that the Filipino government had just cause for offence.

Or are we reaching a stage that no one's allowed to have their feelings hurt?

And Aaron what do you do for a living?

Quote: Matthew Stott @ October 9 2008, 7:52 AM BST

Oh get lost, really; you're now calling me ignorant, or an unknowing racist? If so you can f**k right off. You are a someone who looks for offence everywhere; I don't think you could call the sketch racist, or offensive, and I'm perfectly fine with the way I see the world. Ever thought you might just be over sensitive to this stuff? I despise racism, but not this sketch-because it isn't. I'm frankly pissed off with you.

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I was just referring to you not wanting to even read a link.

Quote: dingo @ October 9 2008, 12:22 AM BST

Well, the Nazis did a bit more than tell Jewish jokes. I'm not trying to troll or anything, just saying the comparison is a little extreme. What's that thingy called when the Holocaust inevitably comes up in an internet debate. I'll see if I can find it.

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n.b. I was merely referring to the argument.

How about the OJ Simpsons trial would have ended earlier if he said,

" I don't consider myself a murderer,"

Quote: Aaron @ October 9 2008, 8:24 AM BST

And Matthew, sooty's a social worker, IIRC. Of course he's looking for offence where there is none. It's the job description.

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Ahh . . . explains a lot then.

Quote: sootyj @ October 9 2008, 8:52 AM BST

How about the OJ Simpsons trial would have ended earlier if he said,

" I don't consider myself a murderer,"

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Just the same as this, yep!

Quote: sootyj @ October 9 2008, 8:52 AM BST

How about the OJ Simpsons trial would have ended earlier if he said,

" I don't consider myself a murderer,"

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I understood your point but thought the analogy was not necessary since you just end up getting people like me pointing out that your example was too extreme.

"the Filipino community in the United Kingdom hereby condemns the BBC and the Harry and Paul Show for their tactless and insensitive behavior and for inciting stereo-typed racial discrimination, vulgarity and violation of the maid's human rights. The show demeaned the dignity of honest labor while promoting the sex industry, domestic abuse and maltreatment of the blue-collar worker that effectively sustains this economy."

Well that's he statement from the Philipino federation.

Unfortunately for me about half of it is an absolute bunch of arse.

And actually a bit racist towards Britain.

I maintain the question isn't is something racist, but is racism always wrong?

I mean the Muslim Asian community would benefit from less tolerance towards destructive preachers.

And certainly PC concerns have hobbled any meaningful approach towards street violence.

That's quite a statement from the Filipinos. Wow.

Here in the US we tend to address such discussion in terms of freedom of speech/hate speech. In general, speech deemed parody/satire is protected by our Constitution whereas speech intended to incite violence or harm against a minority group is not(though often those engaging in such speech carefully choose their words to remain protected).

Anyway, my point is that for the purpose of parody/satire, freedom of speech should not be infringed upon. I am pretty certain Harry and Paul were mocking classism (is that a word?), at least that is how I interpreted it. So fine by me.

Yes could not agree with you more (finally!)

Oppressive societies kill the comics and he clowns pretty early on.

And hate speech is a very specific thing.

I just felt the Philipinos needed their upset at least acknowledged.

Quote: sootyj @ October 9 2008, 8:52 AM BST

we all are a little bit.

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Quote: sootyj @ October 9 2008, 8:52 AM BST

And Aaron what do you do for a living?

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Web developer. (And currently student too.)

Quote: sootyj @ October 9 2008, 10:00 AM BST

"the Filipino community in the United Kingdom hereby condemns the BBC and the Harry and Paul Show for their tactless and insensitive behavior and for inciting stereo-typed racial discrimination, vulgarity and violation of the maid's human rights. The show demeaned the dignity of honest labor while promoting the sex industry, domestic abuse and maltreatment of the blue-collar worker that effectively sustains this economy."

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That's my favourite bit. Undermines any legitimate point which they may have otherwise had.

I wasn't going to sign the petition I certainly won't now.

What a chippy, load of Conservative nonsense. Bet it was written by some one in Opus dei.

Reeeally not sure it's conservative, either big or small.

I dunno accusing a sketch show of being pro prostitution and vulgarity.

That's Marie Whitehouse small c.

Have we just switched sides?

I'm all in favor of vulgarity.

Ah I see. No, I love vulgarity and immature humour.