TV - a closed shop?

Picking up on a post by SlagA in the Not Going Out thread...Fellow newbie writers, here's one for you - name the last British sitcom that was written by a newbie? And it doesn't count if said newbie got a commission because of their B list celeb/Oxbridge contacts.

I once read an interview with Susan (Two Pints...) Nickson where she said that she "was very young, northern, female, and working class" when she got her break, although she also mentioned that she studied English Lit at Uni (didn't say which Uni). I don't think it's the case with SN, but I get tired of reading interviews with TV land types where they bang on about their working class roots...how tough it was to break in to the industry but they're proof that it can be done if you're determined enough and, oh, did one mention that one also went to Cambridge and upon graduation one joined the BBC as Head of Light Entertainment where one's first decision was to commission Hyperdrive?

I heard there was one new guy sent in a piss out loud script that was passed on to head of comedy. Said head visited the guy in the middle of night and burnt the only copy of script in a silver bowl as he chanted obscure latin phrases. Poor man threw away his typewriter and now works in B+Q. That'll teach Birkenhead polytechnic under grads to get ideas over their station.

Here's a scarey idea.

Say government drops the condition thgat the bbc has to be seen to encourge new writers, how long do ya think the writing room would remain open?

I don't believe class has as much of a dominance as it did once, I went to a state college and I'm not going to finish with amazing grades I'm hoping that this wont stop me from been as good as someone else who was born with the money and brains to go to cambridge

You've opened it up to society in general, as opposed to Wheeler's original question. However, I think few people truly move into the upper echelons from the lower classes and those that did were given the tag 'New Money,' implying a qualitative difference between them and those born to the position. And i noticed you hedged it with phrases like "I hope" which makes me wonder if you don't already know the real answer.

The entertainment industry has always been open to various sectors of class. For years it was the only industry where ethnic minorities could hope to gain reasonable success because society accepted an immoral situation where they could watch a black performer but wouldn't allow them to sit in a certain area of the bus or enter a cafe.

But Wheeler's point is not about access to opportunity. We're all free to write scripts and submit them. It's about the truth behind the percieved opportunity. How is your script as a newbie going to be treated against one from an ex-footlights member? How many heads of tv and massive writers and actors (I'm talking giants like Fry Laurie Cleese and Timmy Mallett) went to the main universities? It would probably scare us if presented as percentages.

There is opportunity and OPPORTUNITY. Maybe I'm having a bad weekend but I can't think of an answer to Wheeler's first question. In most script writing success stories there crops up an accessibility to a person already lodged in the business that we could only dream about.

Oh, well. Monday, I'll be feeling better.

By the time you've gotten to the point of having a sitcom broadcast I doubt you're going to be anyone's definition of a newbie.

'I'm With Stupid' was co-created by a guy who won a beeb scriptwriting competition in 2002-ish but he worked on things like 'My Hero' for a year or two first.

People who have a back door into the industry are always going to be steps ahead but I know of a few things that have been commissioned that came in through the front door, pretty rare but it does happen.

Because broadcast comedy's such a small world there's always going to be an element of jobs for the boys, but with prodco's and Beeb becoming more regional I think it's definitely less elitist than it's ever been, however they're probably more clueless and cautious than ever.

Becoming a 'name' is always going to be a very gradual process. The only thing to do is remain optimistic and keep plugging away. Once a few bits and bobs are under your belt and you have a rep as someone who can do the job (and be cool to deal with) then other doors may open.

And you never know where the big break could come from so it's worth cultivating all and sundry. As the old phrase goes - 'the feet you tread on today could be connected to the ass you're kissing tomorrow'

Agree, totally Abluga.

I'm already smiling.

Yeah, I'm in an optimistic mood tonight.

Another thing worth pondering is that quite a few things have surfaced in recent years that began off peoples' own backs.

Shoreditch Twat (not that I ever saw it and know whether it was any good) was just a free zine that was handed out around the area that was picked up a by a C4 producer. The guy who does Rather Good has had a load of work from his site. Charlie Brooker's career (Nathan Barley, Zeppotron etc) came from the tvgohome site and The Mighty Boosh radio series was first broadcast on local London radio before being put out unchanged by R4.

Now all these peeps are probably thought of as media insiders, but they became so because of the work they already had out there.

So with stuff like having your own site, youtube, myspace, podcasting, channel 101 etc. you might even get yourself in the position of having Them approach you.

Gotta hang in there cos what's the alternative?

Quote: ablurga @ November 12, 2006, 5:40 PM

By the time you've gotten to the point of having a sitcom broadcast I doubt you're going to be anyone's definition of a newbie.

View original

I didn't mean a comparison between newbie and ex-footlight member scripts at the broadcast sitcom stage. I was questioning how a newbie's script would fare trapped in a slush pile along with its harrassed first-stage scriptreader when an ex-footlights member had already subbed his idea straight to the head of comedy. The difference in obstacles and people to convince (only one person in the chain has to say "No" for your idea to die) are not going to be equal.

Agreed, SlagA, but it happens in all professions, not just comedy. Perhaps the difference is that there is still a bit more of a residual old boys' network in medialand than in some other areas of work. But ultimately, if they come up with crap, we can criticise, and if they come up with good stuff, the old boys' network has worked. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it's "Blessed".

Aye, you ain't gonna be nowhere in comparison to a footlights type.

But from my own limited experiences of submitting as an absolute nobody from nowhere I've had a pretty good hit rate (about 25%) of having stuff picked out of the slushpile.

One prodco called me in and wanted a radio sitcom written (but I didn't go for it cos they seemed like arseholes, probably a vast mistake) a reader for Beeb Wales was putting his own show together and asked me to write for that and another one strung me along for ages rejecting every other idea in the universe until I told them where to stick it.

So from the little I've gleaned, that first step of being noticed IS attainable though once you're past that point a whole new world of ball ache would appear to open up.

I'd say the biggest and most important difference between having a hot product as a nobody compared to an insider is the amount of leeway they're prepared to give you in improving it.

One of the most worrying trends in all areas of writing is that ten or more years ago they'd give you the space to polish something if there was a nugget of real merit, these days it has to be perfect from the offing or it's a dead duck. If you're on the inside then you'll have plenty more consideration and time to get the thing just right.

Thought I'd seize on the positive nugget here - after all, the TV channels and production companies are all united in one thing: they want something good! So, they are always looking, and if our stuff is really consistently good then they will want it.

(in theory?)

(PS I've tried to edit seize to be spelt with a z - bloody software!)

Sorry, that's my anti-American-spelling protection! Should be sorted in a few moments.

Cheers - it works, but now it looks like I spelt seize correctly and didn't realise. Or is that realize?

SEE! now it's spoilt my deliberate mis-spelling of realise, with a z.
Doh!

I think there's some truth that TV can be difficult for new people to break into. The Cambridge Footlights crew still seem to look after their own, but if you are funny then TV people will buy your work. If there's a sniff of decent ratings or advertising revenue they'll snap you're malnourished hand clean off.
However, it does take time. I work as a comedy writer and it too me a year of writing before I got anything accepted. I now make a decent living, but I'm still waiting to get a show of my own. It seems that boradcasters want to be one hundered per cent sure you're up to the job before they lash out vast sums of development money for a sitcom. The best way in is still via sketch shows, although You Tube may soon provide another viable route. The key is persistence. Keep writing and if you're any good people will take notice. Not only that, but you'll imporve along the way. If after a couple of years it's still not worked out, it could be that you're just rubbish. Do notbe down hearted, this does not rule you out of a career in television comedy.

Wise words indeed! Well said, YesNo.