The only fair criticism is honest criticism.
That's all there is.
I think we've upset someone Page 11
Quote: Seefacts @ October 7 2008, 11:44 PM BSTDoes she stand over you and go 'No, don't post that, it's not quite right'
Does she f**k.
UPDATE:
Apparently yes she does.
Quote: zooo @ October 8 2008, 12:42 AM BSTOh no, it's definitely still 100 times nicer than every other comedy website. And obviously I love all the regulars. (*kisses arse a bit*)
Thanks for the bit.
Quote: zooo @ October 8 2008, 12:42 AM BSTIt's just, I'm sure it used to be even nicer! when it came to talking about specific shows.
May be rose tinted glasses...
Or maybe the shows were better? I dunno. If something's good, praise it, cos they deserve it and people doing a good job in any walk of life aren't praised enough. If it isn't, what's wrong with saying so? As Matthew Stott said, it has nothing to do with whether or not anyone attempts to write shit or not. It's about whether anyone wants to watch shit or not.
[EDIT: He didn't exactly say that, I embelished it a bit. But as numerous people have said before, the idea that because people write comedy they are looking for other comedy to fail and are ultra-critical as a result - this is nonsense to me. Why do people want to write comedy? Because they hate it? No, funnily enough, I think they write because they love it. And great comedy is a something to cherish. I want every new comedy to be great, but realistically they aren't all going to be, and some of them will be crap. So what? Move on to the next one that might be the next big thing.]
Quote: Timbo @ October 7 2008, 11:52 PM BSTIn my experience confidence is often misplaced and talent is often wasted.
I'm sure I read that in a fortune cookie
The only fair criticism is honest criticism.
That's all there is.
AKA the motto of The Slanderer's Society.
Honesty by no means implies fairness. Unless you consider (for example) Aaron's views on black people to be "fair" because he is being honest.
Quote: Perry Nium @ October 8 2008, 1:00 AM BSTI'm sure I read that in a fortune cookie
I may finally have found my métier.
Quote: Griff @ October 8 2008, 1:03 AM BSTHonesty is just saying what you think. It by no means implies fairness.
I read that in a fortune cookie too! I've got to stop eating fortune cookies, fat bastard.
More to the point, tell me where you get your fortune cookies and I'll sue the f**kers for nicking my pretentious waffle.
Quote: Timbo @ October 8 2008, 1:04 AM BSTI may finally have found my métier.
Don't knock it Timbo, I've written jokes for Christmas crackers. It pays the bills.
Quote: Griff @ October 8 2008, 1:07 AM BSTMore to the point, tell me where you get your fortune cookies and I'll sue the f**kers for nicking my pretentious waffle.
I ate a pretentious waffle tonight too. It was like "Oh. My. God. Are you REALLY going to put brown sauce on me, you philistine?"
Quote: Badge @ October 8 2008, 12:40 AM BSTThis site is still the nice comedy website, it still has much less knee-jerk negativity about comedy than most (if not all) other sites - despite the perception of its uber-moderator
Hey man, you got me all wrong man.
Ahem.
I've never compared the BSG or its members to those of other sites. Certainly not that I can remember at least, and therefore I would gather not to the extent to which you seem to be suggesting. I just feel that some people, for whatever reason, fail to even see the other side of the argument, and refuse to see or believe that there is any worth in show 'x' or show 'y' at all.
But yes, I am a c**t. Which I assume is what you were going on to subtly imply.
Quote: Griff @ October 8 2008, 1:03 AM BSTHonesty by no means implies fairness. Unless you consider (for example) Aaron's views on black people to be "fair" because he is being honest.
You knows it.
Quote: Aaron @ October 8 2008, 1:13 AM BSTHey man, you got me all wrong man.
Ahem.
I've never compared the BSG or its members to those of other sites. Certainly not that I can remember at least, and therefore I would gather not to the extent to which you seem to be suggesting. I just feel that some people, for whatever reason, fail to even see the other side of the argument, and refuse to see or believe that there is any worth in show 'x' or show 'y' at all.
But yes, I am a c**t. Which I assume is what you were going on to subtly imply.
No, sorry Aaron, I worded it all clumsily. Apologies for that. You haven't slagged off BSGers like that. But surely you'd admit to a bit of a loathing for this sect of "writers" who it appears always slag off comedy because they are jealous their stuff isn't on tv? My argument is that this sect is in your imagination, and pretty much everyone on this site wants to see good comedy. That's why they come here. And why they are grateful to you and Mark for making it.
I don't have a view on whether or not you are a c**t, not having met you. Good people do c**tish things. As you know, I really have strong disagreement with your casual use of the N word, and some of your posts come across to me as racist, but none of this means you are a racist c**t in fact.
Interesting discussion this. If Michael's blog post has been prompted in part by the discussions on this message board I suspect the abuse being dished out in the Coming Of Age thread might have been one of the triggers for his post. Half those abusive posts are by me I think 
The fundamental problem with looking at discussions about comedy on the internet is that they're never going to provide balance. The reason being, the people getting involved in message board discussions are all roughly the same type of person (i.e. at least slightly geeky for starters... they know how to use a PC, something many don't... and they love chatting and giving their view) so its never going to be a true representation of the general concensus. This board is worse than most as it isn't mainstream at all - i.e. Trev "who well liked that sex comedy show on BBC3 the other night" is never going to logon and post his view here, he's going to go to MSN, Digital Spy or one of the bigger sites he knows.
So, yeah, these discussions are always going to be skewed away from the mainstream stuff... but I do think a general trend as to what's good and what's not is still possible to spot. The Inbetweeners, Peep Show etc are loved on here, but no one has said much about Adam and Shelley... which reflects, to a degree, what's going on in the 'real world' too (or at least from the pub/bus/train/mobile conversations I've eavesdropped on. Incidently, yes, I'm creepy).
The only thing I'd say is that those of you looking to make a career of comedy writing do need to be a little more careful than most when slamming things you don't like on the internet (if you're using your real name on here that is)... producers (your potential future bosses) are humans with feelings too (and many do read these forums). So if you're going to say you hate Lab Rats and everyone involved with it, maybe qualify it a bit more (i.e. say "not to my taste") in case Armando is reading (and I think it safe to assume everyone would still love to work with him)
Quote: Mark @ October 8 2008, 1:26 AM BSTThe only thing I'd say is that those of you looking to make a career of comedy writing do need to be a little more careful than most when slamming things as producers (your potential future bosses) are humans with feelings too (and many do read these forums).
And (successful) writers too. There's a lot of silent readers on this site. Don't forget a Google search for the word "sitcom" comes up with 12 million results, with this here site being number 3. It's very high profile and attracts writers, producers and telly bigwigs alike. That's obviously not to say we need to bow and scrape to them, but for God's sake if you're going to fantasise about sodomizing a comedy producer with their own unlubricated BAFTA award, at least use a pseudonym!
Quote: Badge @ October 8 2008, 1:24 AM BSTNo, sorry Aaron, I worded it all clumsily. Apologies for that. You haven't slagged off BSGers like that. But surely you'd admit to a bit of a loathing for this sect of "writers" who it appears always slag off comedy because they are jealous their stuff isn't on tv? My argument is that this sect is in your imagination, and pretty much everyone on this site wants to see good comedy. That's why they come here. And why they are grateful to you and Mark for making it.
Oh, no, I totally understand and appreciate that (the latter bit). And I feel sure we've said this before, but: I really have nothing against writers. It's the attitudes of some - writers and fans - which (that?) I object to. It just happens that the site's user base consists mostly of aspiring writers, so probably quite naturally, comments I make are often going to be either towards them, or perceived to be towards them. But I really have nothing inherently against writers, be they successful or not, at all.
Which doesn't really address the 'jealousy' point, but I'm tired so can't be bothered to go back and re-write the paragraph to contain it. I think for some the jealousy, frustration, whatever, does come into it. I'm not suggesting that any one person is going to completely hate a show JUST because it's not theirs. Only that it may exaccerbate their dislike of something, or make them more vitriolic in expressing themselves about it. So the jealousy is more the charcoal than the match itself. Or something.