Directions Page 2

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 2:05 PM BST

But there are rules for why they were rejected.

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Yes but I've read scripts in development that not so much bend the rules as snap them in half, set them on fire then piss on the smouldering ashes. It's bloody annoying, especially for new writers who are constantly told they must toe the line, until they've had one "hit" then they can do what the Hell they like. One saying that's always trotted out that I bloody hate is "You have to know what the rules are before you can break them". Which is utter knackers in my opinion.

Quote: Perry Nium @ September 16 2008, 2:43 PM BST

Yes but I've read scripts in development that not so much bend the rules as snap them in half, set them on fire then piss on the smouldering ashes. It's bloody annoying, especially for new writers who are constantly told they must toe the line, until they've had one "hit" then they can do what the Hell they like. One saying that's always trotted out that I bloody hate is "You have to know what the rules are before you can break them". Which is utter knackers in my opinion.

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Where are these rules though Perry? I've seen guidelines I've never seen a set of rules. When someone rejects a script it is usually very simply because they don't find it funny. To ameliorate the harsheness of that response, they might say there are too many characters or too expensive to film or whatever it is they say. They might be wrong not to find it funny but that is a different question.

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 2:51 PM BST

Where are these rules though Perry? I've seen guidelines I've never seen a set of rules. When someone rejects a script it is usually very simply because they don't find it funny. To ameliorate the harsheness of that response, they might say there are too many characters or too expensive to film or whatever it is they say. They might be wrong not to find it funny but that is a different question.

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And what sitcoms on the beeb are hilariously funny....none.
They just play safe with the same tired out format

You find no sitcoms on the BBC funny at all???

And what format?

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 3:11 PM BST

You find no sitcoms on the BBC funny at all???

And what format?

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I don't find My Family remotely funny but it suits people with a gentle humour I suppose....that's a safe format

Quote: bushbaby @ September 16 2008, 3:05 PM BST

And what sitcoms on the beeb are hilariously funny....none.
They just play safe with the same tired out format

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Not sure that is true. Looking at the Beeb's current comedy slate of comedy it is fairly varied. If anything perhaps too much of a premium is placed on concept rather than execution.

Quote: bushbaby @ September 16 2008, 3:13 PM BST

I don't find My Family remotely funny but it suits people with a gentle humour I suppose....that's a safe format

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I't a jolly successful one and has been since sitcoms started. The domestic sitcom. My Family, I dream of Genie, Bless This House, Married With Kids, 2.4 Children. Steptoe and son.

Not Lab Rats though is it.

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 3:20 PM BST

I't a jolly successful one and has been since sitcoms started. The domestic sitcom. My Family, I dream of Genie, Bless This House, Married With Kids, 2.4 Children. Steptoe and son.

Not Lab Rats though is it.

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I guess I've just got old and grumpy ...and cynical...and a cupboard full of rejections

Quote: bushbaby @ September 16 2008, 3:30 PM BST

I guess I've just got old and grumpy ...and cynical...and a cupboard full of rejections

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Well I can't do anything about the old except to tell you that sixy is the new forty five and that's offical. What I was trying to do in a roundabout way was to try and make you less grumpy. You seem frustrated by this rules thing and I was trying to tell you to ignore it. The person who rejected your script (s) may have been a numpty or a genius, and maybe a genius who just didn't share your humour. The likelihood was neither, just people who read through too many scripts and so become kind of numbed by them. There are a lot of shits in TV it is true, also. People are fearful for their jobs, they are anxious on a newbie that can they deliver six, 12, 18, 24 scripts. It may have taken someone one and half years to write a script they felt brilliant, but if that is how long it takes then they can't invest in them for a series. The only truly good way for you to feel ok abut a script being rejected, is that you yourself have worked as hard as you can on it, that you truly think you have made it as funny and as polished as it can be. A lot of people send in 'nearly' scripts, because they figure it might be well rejected anyway, and if it is 'optioned' then there will be plenty of time to polish it up and get it right. That's not the way to go about it. There's no point trying to second guess the industry because that way lies madness. It is a f**cked up Industry. Potter told us all that years ago as did Rosenthal etc. SO: Put your hand on your own heart, answer the question was the last script I submitted to Trials, or wherever it was, as absolutely as good as you could possibly make it? Did you genuinely yourself find it genuinely laugh outloud hilarious? If the answer is no - then stop beating yourself and the 'rules' up about it - just write something that you absolutely can say that about - and then if the numpties don't want it, round up a bunch of your actor mates, book a theatre and stick it on yourself!

Thanks Marc, that does cheer me somewhat.
regarding the Trials entry, yes I counted enough laughs as only I, I suspect can visualise the expressions/way it's said/reactions etc.
I know I can write comedy and have had two comedy plays on in London. They received a fab reaction from the audience and I got laughs where I thought there'd just be a chuckle.
The beeb came to watch and wanted one of the plays. It took them a year going from meeting to meeting then all was needed was the Head's signature and I was told there would be no problem. She left unexpectedly and the next Head didn't want it. They want their own from the beginning which is understandable.
I think that's the point I became bitter/twisted/angry/nash nash nash....just joking but I do get depressed about the business from time to time.

I didn't think I should win the trials BTW, I'm not complaining.

It happens to everyone. Write a novel then you have total control!!

Quote: al_gernon @ September 16 2008, 12:17 PM BST

I posted a bit of a sitcom script up in Critique last week and the most common feedback was that my Directions were too long. I've been studying scripts of produced shows since and they all seem to have directions as long, if not longer (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/insight/downloads/scripts/pantball.pdf)

Advice?

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You've got more directions in yours. You also include a lot of stuff before the dialogue, which looks a bit messy.

But in the link you posted I wouldn't say there were loads of actions.

Quote: al_gernon @ September 16 2008, 12:44 PM BST

That's what I thought. But how do you get across similar directions if it's what you envisage from the outset? Do production companies not want directions or any non-verbal descriptions at all?

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You need direction, just keep it snappy and concise. Let the dialogue tell the story.

Quote: bushbaby @ September 16 2008, 12:26 PM BST

As I've said before, rules only seem to apply to rejected scripts

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I wouldn't agree with that.

I don't think a really good script would be rejected for having too many directions. But I wouldn't advise taking any risks by filling it with action descriptions.

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 1:04 PM BST

A chunck of stage direction to set up a script or scene is acceptable, but it should only be as long as it needs to be and try and make it visually orientated. Use prose skills, in the cut and thrust of the scene only use directions when necessary and avoid camera angles and etc. Make it read like a story.

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Yeah the only time I go into 'directorial' stuff is REVEAL, because that's a specific humour thing.

Quote: Perry Nium @ September 16 2008, 2:43 PM BST

Yes but I've read scripts in development that not so much bend the rules as snap them in half, set them on fire then piss on the smouldering ashes. It's bloody annoying, especially for new writers who are constantly told they must toe the line, until they've had one "hit" then they can do what the Hell they like. One saying that's always trotted out that I bloody hate is "You have to know what the rules are before you can break them". Which is utter knackers in my opinion.

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But when you say 'toe the line' isn't it more a case you have to do everything in your power to not give anyone an excuse to reject it.

At least if you get the basics right, then you know your work will get a fair read (well more than a page!)

Sadly, once you're on the inside you probably can pretty much do what you like. But that's life!

Quote: Marc P @ September 16 2008, 2:51 PM BST

Where are these rules though Perry? I've seen guidelines I've never seen a set of rules. When someone rejects a script it is usually very simply because they don't find it funny. To ameliorate the harsheness of that response, they might say there are too many characters or too expensive to film or whatever it is they say. They might be wrong not to find it funny but that is a different question.

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Agreed.

'The plot is too unfocussed' or 'the characters didn't grab me' = 'I didn't find it funny'.