Quote: Griff @ September 4 2008, 11:04 PM BSTAnd if only some of us applied this arsenal of critical firepower to our own work, just think how good we'd be then.
That's very true.
In fact, I'd wager the most critical and analytical of their own works tend to be the better writers.
Personally, I always thought Aaron was the bitter, jealous one. A product of wanting to be a writer but not having the skills. Fair play though - he recognised he was shit and packed it in.
Quote: Aaron @ September 4 2008, 11:05 PM BSTOh, and I'm extremely frustrated that there aren't more fans prominent on the site, and aware that some have been chased off after being ganged up on for liking something which isn't fashionable.
Welcome to the world of internet comedy fans.
This isn't Digital Spy, Aaron.
You've created (a very good) website, full of passionate and intelligent people. Casual fans will be put off, yes that's true. But in the long run this site will be better for it.
We'd all prefer an analytical piece on a sitcom rather than 'LOL so funnie!!!111' type guff you get elsewhere.
You want to check other comedy sites - they're worse than this for hardcore fans.
Quote: David Bussell @ September 4 2008, 11:06 PM BSTPersonally, I always thought Aaron was the bitter, jealous one. A product of wanting to be a writer but not having the skills. Fair play though - he recognised he was shit and packed it in.
Ahh, yes. He's like a football referee.
A shit player, so decided to put himself in a position where he could rule over the people he wanted to be.
Quote: Griff @ September 4 2008, 11:12 PM BSTTo be fair, Aaron's high level of English literacy puts most of the writers on here to shame. It's just a shame his idea of comedy probably involves stamping a fascist jackboot on the faces of French children.
If writers are to be ashamed, literacy is the least of the causes for it.
Glad this is in General Discussion, otherwise we'd all be doomed for going off topic.
As has been suggested to Aaron "literally" a zillion times, being a writer (at whatever level) and being a fan of comedy are not mutually exclusive, and some of the biggest comedy fans in the world are those who do - or try to - write it. And most of those tend to admire and celebrate comedy, rather than belittle it.
P.S. Godot Taxis doesn't need me to defend him and I like many things about his no-shit-tell-it-like-it-is-persona, but even I think he comes across as a bit rude at times. Sorry Godot. But this is only "comes across as" - I know no more about him in real life than I do about all the nicey-nicey posters.
Quote: Griff @ September 4 2008, 11:39 PM BSTIt is a constant puzzle why people feel so vitriolic towards comedy that doesn't work for them, and I count myself among those. I only have to think about the Boosh gig I went to years ago and the red mist comes down. I read an interview once with David Mitchell where he said something like "People try really hard, to do something that makes people happy, in a way that is incredible difficult to do, and we give them such a hard time if they don't quite manage to do it."
People seem to hate unsuccessful comedy so much more than they hate, say, bad music. I've seen (and indeed many years ago played in) bands that were terrible, and audiences just sort of switch off and chat. But get a stand-up dying on his arse and the atmosphere becomes almost gladiatorial. "How dare that person tell a joke that no-one gets? Let's kick his face in!" As someone once wrote, "Comedy is one of the only art forms where you can measure success by whether you make it to your car or not."
Really good points there, Griff.
Quote: Seefacts @ September 4 2008, 11:09 PM BSTWelcome to the world of internet comedy fans.
This isn't Digital Spy, Aaron.
You've created (a very good) website, full of passionate and intelligent people. Casual fans will be put off, yes that's true. But in the long run this site will be better for it.
We'd all prefer an analytical piece on a sitcom rather than 'LOL so funnie!!!111' type guff you get elsewhere.
You want to check other comedy sites - they're worse than this for hardcore fans.
Aye, 'tis true. There's plenty of other comedy fandoms around though, without descending to thank kind of pleb-ility.
Quote: Seefacts @ September 4 2008, 11:09 PM BSTAhh, yes. He's like a football referee.
A shit player, so decided to put himself in a position where he could rule over the people he wanted to be.
Ha!
Quote: Seefacts @ September 4 2008, 11:41 PM BSTReally good points there, Griff.
Yeah but what are the points? Why is it do you both think?
Do ALL threads have to revert to the subject of 'points'.
You dirty bastards.
Quote: Badge @ September 4 2008, 11:34 PM BSTAs has been suggested to Aaron "literally" a zillion times, being a writer (at whatever level) and being a fan of comedy are not mutually exclusive, and some of the biggest comedy fans in the world are those who do - or try to - write it. And most of those tend to admire and celebrate comedy, rather than belittle it.
I'm not saying that the two are separate. My point is that the attitudes and critical criteria applied by writers - who are a minority of the viewing population - are often miles apart from the majority of the audience, and sometimes the target audience specifically.
Quote: Marc P @ September 4 2008, 11:44 PM BSTYeah but what are the points? Why is it do you both think?
I'm not one of the both, but it's easy innit? Comedy is the only art form that is intended to elicit a certain response (i.e. laughter, or at least happiness), whereas with other dramatic forms it's a whole lot more fuzzy. It's more likely for someone to come out of an art house film that they didn't "get" and say they didn't get it but they admired the way it was made, than it is for someone to come away from comedy that didn't tickle them and say "yeah, but I can dig the way the comedian put together that routine".
Quote: Griff @ September 4 2008, 11:12 PM BSTTo be fair, Aaron's high level of English literacy puts most of the writers on here to shame. It's just a shame his idea of comedy probably involves stamping a fascist jackboot on the faces of French children.
I actually laughed out loud at this.
Quote: Marc P @ September 4 2008, 11:44 PM BSTYeah but what are the points? Why is it do you both think?
Is comedy the hardest genre to break into?
Take music. If I wanted to record an album, I could. Cheaply and easily. If I wanted to record a broadcast quality sitcom though, it'd cost a lot of cash. Cheaper than it's ever been mind, but still dear.
Therefore to make a TV show you have to be 'someone'. Someone who's earned it - whether they're shit or not - they've got there for a reason.
So perhaps more vitriol goes there way because if it's shit, it's even more shocking/infuriating that they've 'made it'.
I think breaking into the music industry is easier than ever. Getting into TV comedy is still very hard. So when someone shit breaks through, it's quite annoying.
I'd also say comedy - good comedy - is fiercely intelligent at times - so are the fan base. Therefore the discussions are more heated.
Quote: Aaron @ September 4 2008, 11:48 PM BSTI'm not saying that the two are separate. My point is that the attitudes and critical criteria applied by writers - who are a minority of the viewing population - are often miles apart from the majority of the audience, and sometimes the target audience specifically.
I agree with this point, but this isn't what you usually (or, at least, often) say about the evil "writers" on your forums. You accuse them of jealous sniping.
Quote: Griff @ September 4 2008, 11:51 PM BSTWell, I dunno. A lot of live music is intended to make people want to dance, or jump around, or punch the air excitedly, or sing along, or other physical reactions. And when the audience stand there bored looking at their watches instead, the band has definitely failed. I speak from experience here.
Yeah, music is designed to get people moving.
Comedy should elicit a continued physical response, as should music. Art or drama doesn't.