Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:20 PM BSTGo on...?
It's backwards, troglodytic, antiquated. It's luck of the draw, why bother caring for your country?
Bad day? Page 77
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:24 PM BSTIt's backwards, troglodytic, antiquated. It's luck of the draw, why bother caring for your country?
On that same basis, why bother caring for your family?
Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:27 PM BSTOn that same basis, why bother caring for your family?
Because there is an actual genetic connection? Your family raise you, nurture you.
Plus I don't actively denigrate other families to promote my own.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:30 PM BSTBecause there is an actual genetic connection? Your family raise you, nurture you.
All of which you have no control over. Just like the country you're born in.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:30 PM BSTPlus I don't actively denigrate other families to promote my own.
And I don't denigrate other countries to promote my own. So what's your point?
Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:34 PM BSTAll of which you have no control over. Just like the country you're born in.
Yeah, but there is a connection beyond that initial luck. Even on a biological level it makes sense for me to keep my family sweet because I might need a kidney one day.
Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:34 PM BSTAnd I don't denigrate other countries to promote my own. So what's your point?
Sure. 
It depends on your world view. I see a "person" where you see a "French-man" or an "Italian-man" and so on. I prefer not to put up ridiculous barriers between me and people. I'd never bother claiming that my country was any good 'cos it has nothing to do with me. I didn't make Britain great, I probably never will, why bask in it's reflective glory?
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:38 PM BSTYeah, but there is a connection beyond that initial luck. Even on a biological level it makes sense for me to keep my family sweet because I might need a kidney one day.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:38 PM BSTSure.
You seem to be confusing a genuine dislike of something, with disliking it purely for the purpose of the opposite's promotion.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:38 PM BSTIt depends on your world view. I see a "person" where you see a "French-man" or an "Italian-man" and so on. I prefer not to put up ridiculous barriers between me and people.
Different cultures and ways of life aren't "ridiculous barriers". They're a fact of life.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:38 PM BSTI'd never bother claiming that my country was any good 'cos it has nothing to do with me. I didn't make Britain great, I probably never will, why bask in it's reflective glory?
If you really believe that that is all patriotism is, then we may as well end the discussion here.
The real question is why am I defending Ian's point? *shakes fist in Ian's direction*
Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:45 PM BSTDifferent cultures and ways of life aren't "ridiculous barriers". They're a fact of life.
I never saw them as that big a deal.
Quote: Aaron @ August 9 2008, 11:45 PM BSTIf you really believe that that is all patriotism is, then we may as well end the discussion here.
Well is there anything more to it?
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:49 PM BSTWell is there anything more to it?
Yeah, it gives govenments a great excuse to send people to die for them.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:49 PM BSTI never saw them as that big a deal.
I suppose it depends on the point from which you observe, and why. National quirks and individual traits become increasingly apparent when you're interested in politics, as they influence each country's agenda and attitude towards the international community. So for me, they can be a very big deal.
Quote: PhQnix @ August 9 2008, 11:49 PM BSTWell is there anything more to it?
Patriotism is a very individual thing, so I can only speak for myself. It's not just "past glories", as I think you put it, of the country. I don't really know how to explain it to someone who's not into the same kinds of things (maybe zooo can help with some of this bit?), but I love our history, architecture, wildlife, landscape and other natural and geological stuff. Also our (more traditional rather than modern) society, much of our cultural heritage. The contributions we have made, and continue to make, to the world in so many different fields.
It's true that some of those constituent parts aren't unique to Britain, but as a whole it's pretty one-off. It's not all about military victories and showing that we're "better" than others, as I suspect you were implying, nor is it even necessarily about the difference of other countries. Just "us".
I don't expect you to understand a single bit of that though. Like I said, it's hard to explain.
Quote: ian_w @ August 9 2008, 11:53 PM BSTYeah, it gives govenments a great excuse to send people to die for them.
Nor is it necessarily anything to do with politics.
I don't use the word patriotic, because that just makes people think I love the Royal family and want to join the army. But I do love England lots and lots. It's ace.
But, that's chiefly because I know all about this country - having lived in it all my life, and I expect I'd manage to be just as proud of my country if I'd been born in Czechoslovakia, or Belarus or something.
I'm kind of glad I wasn't though.
Quote: zooo @ August 10 2008, 12:48 AM BSTI do love England lots and lots. It's ace.
But, that's chiefly because I know all about this country - having lived in it all my life, and I expect I'd manage to be just as proud of my country if I'd been born in Czechoslovakia, or Belarus or something.
Prezunctly.
Quote: zooo @ August 10 2008, 12:48 AM BSTI'm kind of glad I wasn't though.
Quote: zooo @ August 10 2008, 12:48 AM BSTI don't use the word patriotic, because that just makes people think I love the Royal family and want to join the army. But I do love England lots and lots. It's ace.
But, that's chiefly because I know all about this country - having lived in it all my life, and I expect I'd manage to be just as proud of my country if I'd been born in Czechoslovakia, or Belarus or something.
I'm kind of glad I wasn't though.
Exactly! That was really well put, Laura.
thanks!
I'm just glad I spelled Czechoslovakia right. 
And much more succinct than my attempt at teaching the unteachable.
You can use it to quote from now on! 