Quote: DaButt @ August 1 2008, 12:37 AM BSTI'm surprised nobody has brought up the Soylent Green solution for overpopulation.
Have you never been to a McDonald's? I've suspected this for years.
Population control - not controversial I hope.. Page 7
Quote: sootyj @ August 1 2008, 12:38 AM BSTBeing serious for a second once we start judging, people tend to get hurt, badly and quickly.
The only real solution is education, and support for everyone.
We need to ask why crime, pregnancy, and substance abuse are the only ways for so many people to express them selves in any way?
I thought you said you assume they know best?
The kids are getting an education. It's back to parents pretty much en masse not doing much of a job on bringing kids up by the look of it.
I mainly work with adults with learning disabilities, and mental health issues.
And expecting to get hit with the
"you're a soggy liberal"
stick.
I find the more you help people do what they want as opposed to telling them what to do, the better the results.
When I was in youthwork the opposite seemed to be the case, or worse big dollops of give them what you think they'll want.
That way just lead to madness.
And the most surprising people can make good parent.s
Quote: Griff @ August 1 2008, 12:45 AM BSTNo of course it's not alright.
But you have to give people the chance to be good parents, you can't just say "the state says person X can't have children". Well, not in my ideal world anyway, maybe in other people's.
If they f**k up, then they need help and guidance and so on, and maybe financial help, or the state need to intervene in extreme cases, and yes some people are taking the piss and that ain't right.
I don't know what the answer is. But cabals of officials mandating on who is allowed to have children and who isn't is pretty disgusting to me, and quite frankly the opposite of "liberal".
Let's not be over-liberal though. A liberal 'Utopia' is a silly old worn out idea that has just never worked anywhere.
I agree that Social Workers/Officials or anybody from The Govt. are not competent to decide who should and shouldn't have kids. That's as clear as a bell.
Corks (organic, of course) strategically placed, may be an alternative to Social Workers, and cheaper. Sooty will have to get a full time job as a writer.
I have no answers either.
Quote: Griff @ August 1 2008, 12:45 AM BSTI was only three so some of the detail was lost on me at the time.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ August 1 2008, 12:54 AM BSTLet's not be over-liberal though. A liberal 'Utopia' is a silly old worn out idea that has just never worked anywhere.
I agree that Social Workers/Officials or anybody from The Govt. are not competent to decide who should and shouldn't have kids. That's as clear as a bell.
Corks (organic, of course) strategically placed, may be an alternative to Social Workers, and cheaper. Sooty will have to get a full time job as a writer.
I have no answers either.
Sadly parents with difficulties bring up kids ok with help
or
Adoption works smoothly
or
Guy with learning disabilties lives on, and gets job.
They're boring stories for the chip wrappers.
Much better,
to fix on the exiting expetions where things go wrong.
Quote: sootyj @ August 1 2008, 12:51 AM BSTI mainly work with adults with learning disabilities, and mental health issues.
And expecting to get hit with the
"you're a soggy liberal"
stick.
I find the more you help people do what they want as opposed to telling them what to do, the better the results.
When I was in youthwork the opposite seemed to be the case, or worse big dollops of give them what you think they'll want.
That way just lead to madness.
And the most surprising people can make good parent.s
I can imagine that quite a few of your learning diabilities/mental health issues people would make better parents than some of these so called 'chavs'.
It's not fashionable, I know, but kids and adults DO need discipline. And it can be 'liberally' applied to good effect! Rules are required. Problem is we don't have anybody competent to decide what the rules should be nor to ensure they are effective in delivering an appropriate result, i.e. a healthy and happy community for everybody.
We've just got a load a gits in power! 
Quote: sootyj @ August 1 2008, 1:01 AM BSTSadly parents with difficulties bring up kids ok with help
or
Adoption works smoothly
or
Guy with learning disabilties lives on, and gets job.
They're boring stories for the chip wrappers.
Much better,
to fix on the exiting expetions where things go wrong.
Point taken, of course. It would be good to see some real stats on that. But what can you believe? The stats always get manipulated by the producer. You can't trust anything you can't see for yourself in the end.
Many of them do turn out to be decent parents.
A lot of these toubled kids just want to work, earn money, and help out at home.
Why not?
Whats so shameful about teaching some one to be a plumber at 14?
They earn more than teachers.
It's this dernaged Labour obsessions with endless exams, and every one going to UNI.
Fair comment.
Point taken, of course. It would be good to see some real stats on that. But what can you believe? The stats always get manipulated by the producer. You can't trust anything you can't see for yourself in the end.
[/quote]
Things go wrong, but less often than you think. I mean in mental health, a lot of problems come from them being so starved of resources.
It's the first place any gouvernment makes cuts. And assuming people will take physically damaging pills for ever, because you can't hire enough clinical staff is a route to madness literally.
And no one shoudl end up in the terrifying places that are modern mental health hospitals.
Brown has a nasty habit of producing guidelines, and plans with no money, and saying it's already there.
It isn't.
Quote: Paul W @ July 31 2008, 5:35 PM BSTIf we're at the point where we can terraform a planet and transport people, it wouldn't be a large stretch of the imagination to move a hell of a lot of people to the other planet and the idea is more to make a colony, not move the entire earths population. It's to sustain the human race more than anything.
Nah, the point is it takes masses of energy to get into orbit all of which gets wasted when you land at the other end, so how-so-ever you do it, getting around 186 million people into orbit per year to export them will nacker the Earth's atmosphere.
Exporting surplus population is NOT a viable answer to over population. IMO
Maybe we could start downlaoding our conciousness and living on the internet.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 31 2008, 5:55 PM BSTThere's a view in the UK that the entire (non Red Indian) population of the USA could be got rid of to the great advantage of the rest of the planet! Then the Red Indians could have their buffalo back and their whole way of life! It's a thought, eh?
Who hold this strange view?
Ah must be the buffalos in Whipsnade Zoo.
Quote: DaButt @ August 1 2008, 12:03 AM BSTI raised both of my kids from the ages of 1 and 2 by myself with no assistance from their mother. It wasn't a walk in the park, but it's not that difficult if you're willing to work hard. I think people are losing touch with the importance of working hard and taking responsibility for one's actions.
You must have been remarkably virile as a toddler, fathering children at such an early age. What age was the mum, that's what I want to know.
Quote: sootyj @ August 1 2008, 1:12 AM BSTMaybe we could start downlaoding our conciousness and living on the internet.
I'm all for you lot doing that.
I can live without the net. I did for decades.