I shared a flat with a member of the BNP,
nice guy always had free beer, and was knockinh bits off my rent if I paid cash early.
I convucned him there was a white Christian conspiracy running the world.
Hope he doesn't shoot Rowan Williams.
Inevitably acrimonious racism discussion Page 3
Quote: Griff @ July 23 2008, 10:16 AM BSTWell not really an alternative, that was always the original plan.
Thinking of complaints put to the BBC by different pressure groups over the years.
Come to thik of it forget most the stuff I've said, if it's a hell for leather take no prisoners peice you can get away with anything.
Youngones Black Nazi Postman
League of Gentlemen Knitte Rider obsessed learning disabled man burnt to death by thugs
Paedophile rape in Peep show,
Paedophile sex in Trainspotting.
I guess if you're truly commited anything can work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiSIhE24i4
Talking about the Young Ones how mad is that?
Should I get a PS3 for the Keeping Up Appearances Game?
Hasn't the asian shopkeeper bit been extremely well covered by The Simpsons and Still Game? Navid in Still Game is one of the best sitcom characters ever, let alone the best (sotto voce) asian shopkeeper, but the starting point is a couple of obvious but sweetly-observed traits about shopkeepers from that area, ie they will sell porn, booze and scratchcards buy still personally observe their Muslim values, they often have a heef-and-hawf, part Indian part Glaswegian accent, and they are always on the phone for some reason. From that though, he's then fleshed out with the banter with the other customers, they all mercilessly take the piss out of each other and that way you see that he can hold his own in a fight, usually by calling Isa (his white, gossipy old lady cleaner) a prick.
I've got a huge crush on Navid.
Quote: sootyj @ July 23 2008, 10:42 AM BSTPaedophile rape in Peep show,
Paedophile sex in Trainspotting.I guess if you're truly commited anything can work
To be fair, neither of these were proper paedo sex. Sex with a thirteen or fourteen year old isn't really much of a crime.
Chipolata with an attitude you'll find your self in prison, waving your dinkle goodbye as some one flushes it down the loo.
Quote: sootyj @ July 23 2008, 11:48 AM BSTChipolata with an attitude you'll find your self in prison, waving your dinkle goodbye as some one flushes it down the loo.
If you could vet the other prisoners, prison would be quite fun.
The witchdoctor sounds like a great character. I like the idea that someone suggested of his mum phoning up thinking he's in a normal job.
The problem is, if the only "normal" everyman-type character is white and middle class, and all the "weird" characters are foreigners, it is going to look a bit xenophobic. The main ways to get round that would be either to have at least one "positive" ethnic minority character, or to make the white character a monster or a fool. And as you've said, both of those options could appear to a bit patronising and tokeny.
A more radical solution might be to address the issue of audience perception head on. So, the audience (hypothetically) thinks: "Man is from Tanzania. Man is crazy primitive religious freak. Writer is therefore saying that all people from Tanzania are crazy primitive religious freaks. Writer is racist!"
If you can somehow point out the false logic in that statement in a subtle, funny and non-preachy way (but obviously without referring to the audience), you can defuse the criticism and get some laughs at the same time.
I'm not saying that would be an easy scene to write, but it might be another option. Maybe the witchdoctor himself shows that he's not like the rest of his countrymen, by ranting about his superiority and how most people in Tanzania think he's a f**king loon. Maybe that's why he had to leave.
Why would society consider the portrayal of a "black Tanzanian witchdoctor" racist and yet the inverse (a twenties, male, white IT specialist) isn't?
It seems that writers are going to reach a situation (or have) where we:
a) only write about characters within our own ethnicity / culture or
b) all characters that don't share our ethnicity must be portrayed as good and found in situations that must break every stereotype - Mr Patel, the lazy Roman Catholic priest whose church is never open.
While a writer admits all stereotypes are far from ideal, they can provide a shortcut to context and settings familiar to viewers / listeners. This is especially true in a subsiduary character where the need is to further plot without introducing a multi-layered psychologically accurate character who's only part is to say "Next please!" Sketch shows seem particularly unafraid of using this.
The idea of replacing an asian shopkeeper with a bored distracted teen or an overhelpful assistant is only replacing one stereotype for another. The best justification for defining a person's characteristics in a script (including race / gender / culture) is if that characteristic adds something to the plot, or impinges on the lead characters in some way. If it does, specify it. If it doesn't, leave it to the casting team.
Talking of stereotypes, Goodness Gracious Me seemed fond of stereotypes that a white writer would have been lynched for using. The same script would have been binned or broadcast, totally dependent on the race of the writer, which appears equally racist.
So I'd ask, what exactly does this witchdoctor character need to work? If he needs to be black, then character demands you specify it.
Quote: chipolata @ July 23 2008, 11:47 AM BSTTo be fair, neither of these were proper paedo sex. Sex with a thirteen or fourteen year old isn't really much of a crime.
If I ever find myself in court for something, will you be my lawyer?
Quote: SlagA @ July 23 2008, 12:03 PM BSTWhy would society consider the portrayal of a "black Tanzanian witchdoctor" racist and yet the inverse (a twenties, male, white IT specialist) isn't?
Context. We live in a predominantly white society, and most of us probably consider witchdoctors weird or ridiculous. There's nothing negative about someone being an IT specialist, unless you portray them in stereotypically nerdy fashion. Which still wouldn't be racist. The "racism" comes from associating an ethnic minority (African) with negative traits (superstitious claptrap) for an overwhelmingly white audience.
Quote: SlagA @ July 23 2008, 12:03 PM BSTTalking of stereotypes, Goodness Gracious Me seemed fond of stereotypes that a white writer would have been lynched for using. The same script would have been binned or broadcast, totally dependent on the race of the writer, which appears equally racist.
Again, context. Minorities get a pass to say things that would be unacceptable for the white majority, because they are in the minority and it's tolerated as part of the broader issue of addressing an imbalance in representation. It may not be an ideal solution, but societies as diverse as Britain's are a relatively new thing, so there are bound to be teething troubles.
It would be a good episode of Rising Damp:
RIGSBY: Oooh, hello Phillip! Where are you going with that Oxo cube? Not going to put me in a pot and eat me like they do there in Ongo-bongo land?
(AUDIENCE HOWLS)
PHILLIP: Yes actually. I AM.
(PHILLIP CLONKS RIGSBY OVER THE HEAD WITH A SPEAR, PUTS A NAPKIN AROUND HIS THROAT, SMACKS HIS LIPS AND WINKS TO CAMERA)
Isn't there a Rising Damp style sitcom in the pipeline by Simon Nye and starring the Iranian bloke?
Where I live you sometimes get given flyers advertising the services of witchdoctors. I kept one because I was thinking of having my Grey Bloke character go for a consultation some time, but I haven't got round to writing that script yet.
The guy whose flyer I have says he can cure addictions, solve marital difficulties, lift curses, help you to gain business clients and resolve all problems related to love in 3 to 7 days maximum with a 100% guarantee. But I think if I were unhappy with his services I'd be a bit wary of asking for a refund...
Quote: sootyj @ July 23 2008, 10:10 AM BSTI convucned him there was a white Christian conspiracy running the world.
Quote: SlagA @ July 23 2008, 12:03 PM BSTWhy would society consider the portrayal of a "black Tanzanian witchdoctor" racist and yet the inverse (a twenties, male, white IT specialist) isn't?
It seems that writers are going to reach a situation (or have) where we:
a) only write about characters within our own ethnicity / culture or
b) all characters that don't share our ethnicity must be portrayed as good and found in situations that must break every stereotype - Mr Patel, the lazy Roman Catholic priest whose church is never open.
Father Ted had a fabulous lusty Brazillian priest, a couple of screaming gay stereotypes and all sorts. Young ones had a Black Nazi Postman, this kinda stuff is cool.
But they work, and aren't offensive because the whole world in these shows is mad, and the stereotypes are only part of the wider madness. It's when you isolate elements of this madness you run into problems. It's the difference between stnading a huddle and laughing at each others, and pointing and laughing at others.
Talking of stereotypes, Goodness Gracious Me seemed fond of stereotypes that a white writer would have been lynched for using. The same script would have been binned or broadcast, totally dependent on the race of the writer, which appears equally racist.
That's a toughy, can you ban people from saying what they like about their own culture? What if you pay them to say ba things about them selves, purely so you can sell the material onto people outside that group?(early Lenny Henry, that bloke Charlie off the comedians)
So I'd ask, what exactly does this witchdoctor character need to work? If he needs to be black, then character demands you specify it.
Quote: Mike Greybloke @ July 23 2008, 2:35 PM BSTWhere I live you sometimes get given flyers advertising the services of witchdoctors. I kept one because I was thinking of having my Grey Bloke character go for a consultation some time, but I haven't got round to writing that script yet.
The guy whose flyer I have says he can cure addictions, solve marital difficulties, lift curses, help you to gain business clients and resolve all problems related to love in 3 to 7 days maximum with a 100% guarantee. But I think if I were unhappy with his services I'd be a bit wary of asking for a refund...
I paid my local witchdoctor to kill Bernard Manning, well worth £50 I say.