General, General Thread Page 819

Yikes.

Don't be a creationist!

I'm not a creationist, I just see that evolution is very heavily flawed. Way too flawed to enjoy the current status it has.

So are we aliens?

And there was I, thinking Ian was referring to scientific "knowledge" that God created us, when in fact he was dissing evolution.

I'm an American who voted for George Bush twice (4 times, if you count his father) and I live in the Deep South. Hell, my vote in Florida in 2000 is enough to damn me in the eyes of many people. I like guns, pickup trucks and apple pie, but there's no way I'll ever be able to stomach the anti-evolution movement. I prefer my science to be forward-leaning instead of backward-looking.

Hey, apple pies were being made in England before America was even "discovered". More than a little weird that something foreign is often considered to be the definition of American. Almost as if the country isn't deemed to really exist...

*spooky music plays*

Quote: DaButt @ July 21 2008, 1:49 AM BST

I'm an American who voted for George Bush twice (4 times, if you count his father) and I live in the Deep South. Hell, my vote in Florida in 2000 is enough to damn me in the eyes of many people. I like guns, pickup trucks and apple pie, but there's no way I'll ever be able to stomach the anti-evolution movement. I prefer my science to be forward-leaning instead of backward-looking.

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But I assume this is from a religion v. science perspective?
That's not at all where I'm coming from. I'm talking about the theory in relation to its own merits/weaknesses.
It is being taught as fact to children as they go through school. This is not how science works. You can not just formulate a half-arsed theory and then sell it as absolute fact. I have nothing against this so long as they make them aware that even the most ardent supporters of the theory will hold their hands up and admit there are many holes in it at the current time, it's just it happens to be the best we've got.

What are some of these holes, Ian?

(I'm not being confrontational BTW, I'm genuinely intrigued.)

I could rant on this one for pages and pages.
But just a couple of points very briefly.

There is very very little evidence of cross-over species. All the creatures on this planet, and the trillions of versions of them as they've changed over time - and we so far have one or two skeletons that look a bit like amphibians (which means they are at the stage of coming out the water and onto land, which in itself is just pure guesswork).

Then we have to think about the cross-over species. An egg laying reptile for instance becomes a mammal which has it's young internally. So how does this midway point work? Does it suck the eggs back up for a while? There are lots of other pretty ridiculous problems on this theme but I really can't be asked. I'm typing loads already when I wanted to be brief.

And then there's the fact that all the 'upgraded' creatures live alongside the original versions that were supposed to be involved in a 'survival of the fittest'. Clearly they didn't actually need it.

And last, there is no proof whatsoever of genes modifying themselves to benefit a species. Lots to give them disadvatages, but none for the other way round.

EDIT:

These points are all made really badly and shoddily but I am crackered so I apologise.

Hmmm. *strokes chin*

Iiiiiiiinteresting. *continues to ponder*

Quote: ian_w @ July 21 2008, 2:17 AM BST

These points are all made really badly and shoddily but I am crackered so I apologise.

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But are they made by a scientist? Because if they aren't I'm not inclined to believe them any more than I'd believe my barber if he started spouting off about quantum physics.

Sure, we only have a small fossil record to go by. But isn't there enough physical evidence in the modern world to support the theory of evolution? Eyeless versions of various critters in dark caves, drug-resistant bacteria, peppered moths, etc?

Proof against intelligent design.

Quote: Graham Bandage @ July 21 2008, 12:09 PM BST

Proof against intelligent design.

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Now that is bloody sweet!

Didn't watch it all but at the guy with the broken arm.

I just went for a job interview at a stately home and found it incredibly arousing. I found myself having lord of the manor fantasies involving me disciplining a lot of nubile chambermaids. Ellie's not up for a virtual spanking, is she?

Aaron likes that sort of thing too, I think.