Vigilance. Page 2

Decency, politeness and armed civil militia.

Democracy is all about controlling the means of violence.

According to Marx thats more important than wealth, or means of production.

In Israel if you take a school trip, you're expected to check an Uzi out at the local Police armoury. And parents voluntairly guard schools, its a surprsisingly unviolent society.

Unlike Japan....

Quote: Griff @ July 2 2008, 3:54 PM BST

Have they not seen Bad Girls or Prisoner Cell Block H ?

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Or Oz, or the banned episode of Porridge where FLetcher raped Godber....

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 2:34 PM BST

Just saw footage of Bulldozer rampage in Jerusalem. The guy driving it, was killed by armed civilians. With the rate of armed assaults/murders in London. Is it about time we started arming citizen volunteers of good character?

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I read that the driver was killed by police officers and a security guard, but I'm 100% comfortable with allowing sane, law-abiding, trained civilians to carry handguns. I live in a state where concealed carry permits are easy to obtain and I'm sure I walk amongst dozens of armed civilians every day and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

Yes, I would love to see this country become more like Israel, that would be superb (big fat NOT).

You have a right of return Joel, if you're so keen to live in a gun-filled society then why not use it?
But for me it scares me that even one person out of 60 odd million might be thinking this could be the solution.

Jeez knew it'd be a fellow Red Sea Pedestrian who'd tell me to go back where my ancestors came from.

Frankly the thing that bothered me was that guy who was stabbed in London the other day. He knew his killers, they wanted to get him for stopping them stealing a mountain bike. A death foretold over a week, thats wrong, and we should be beyond that.

And it's not such a crazy view. A democracy, that won't or can't protect it's citizens is sowing the seeds of it's own destruction.

In the case of this country, amongst our younger generation.

And Israel isn't gunfilled. It has some of the strictest laws on gun ownership going. The concept there is you can borrow one from the State if you need it.

Does leave the eccentric problem of guys getting refused a hand gun licence, then being issued an M16 by the gouvernment.

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 2:34 PM BST

Is it about time we started arming citizen volunteers of good character?

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No.

Quote: Graham Bandage @ July 2 2008, 3:05 PM BST

Fine, open it up for applications, and then disqualify anybody who actually applies.

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What happened to punching people?

It still hurts, you get your point across, but nobody has to go to prison and/or die.

Bring back punching.

Quote: Sofa_Matt @ July 2 2008, 3:34 PM BST

Next you'll be telling me that cannabis causes mental health issues! (sorry personal soapbox taking over there)

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Quote: Griff @ July 2 2008, 3:42 PM BST

Scandinavian countries don't have a fraction of the crime or social problems that we do. (OK they got off to a bad start with the Vikings but we'll gloss over that.)

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Quote: Griff @ July 2 2008, 4:37 PM BST

* punches zooo *

NB not really.

BTW people do often die from being punched and prison sentences result.

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True, but 12 people per year die putting their trousers on. And 27 go to prison for picking wild flowers. You'll always get the odd awkward twat who manages to die from being lightly slapped. Idiots.

...I've forgotten what my point was. Just trust that I have one.

And stop punching me. My eyeball has come loose.

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 3:53 PM BST

Also they match fines to earnings (the founder of Nokia was fined £85,000 for speeding).

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Now that's a good idea.

You're in your bed and you awake to find an armed intruder standing in the doorway. Would you want a gun in your hand if you could magically conjure one up?

A street thug approaches you with a knife, a crazed student enters your classroom with guns blazing, your girlfriend's ex-boyfriend shows up and says he's going to kill you both - same question.

From my local newspaper:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA070108.METRO.shooting.fb1295b.html

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 4:31 PM BST

Frankly the thing that bothered me was that guy who was stabbed in London the other day. He knew his killers, they wanted to get him for stopping them stealing a mountain bike. A death foretold over a week, thats wrong, and we should be beyond that.

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So what are you saying, it was obvious it was going to happen so someone should have shot them?

And it's not such a crazy view. A democracy, that won't or can't protect it's citizens is sowing the seeds of it's own destruction.

At the moment we don't have a particluar problem with guns, so why on earth should we introduce them and risk creating one?

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2008, 4:43 PM BST

You're in your bed and you awake to find an armed intruder standing in the doorway. Would you want a gun in your hand if you could magically conjure one up?

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The point is that we don't want either to have a gun.
Really stupid argument.

If you could choose between no one having a gun, or everyone having one, which do you think would make the better choice?

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 2:56 PM BST

Struck by remarks in US, that sensible gun ownership would have lessened the effects of some school massacres.

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Yeah but to anyone with half a brain cell, that argument is obvious bollocks. If everyone had a gun and was panicking and started shooting, how would that have lessened the effects? Some people are just mental.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2008, 4:43 PM BST

You're in your bed and you awake to find an armed intruder standing in the doorway. Would you want a gun in your hand if you could magically conjure one up?

A street thug approaches you with a knife, a crazed student enters your classroom with guns blazing, your girlfriend's ex-boyfriend shows up and says he's going to kill you both - same question.

From my local newspaper:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA070108.METRO.shooting.fb1295b.html

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Sorry dabutt but I feel you're totally missing the point.
It's a big fat vicious circle. If the guns weren't so readily available in the first place there would be no need to have to protect yourself from one.

Quote: zooo @ July 2 2008, 4:36 PM BST

What happened to punching people?

It still hurts, you get your point across, but nobody has to go to prison and/or die.

Bring back punching.

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And kicking in the goolies.