Just saw footage of Bulldozer rampage in Jerusalem. The guy driving it, was killed by armed civilians. With the rate of armed assaults/murders in London. Is it about time we started arming citizen volunteers of good character?
Vigilance.
Is this Sootyj or Smithy? Up the revolution!
Maybe, semi serious on this one.
Struck by remarks in US, that sensible gun ownership would have lessened the effects of some school massacres.
Fine, open it up for applications, and then disqualify anybody who actually applies.
Unless you mean by 'sensible gun ownership' there is NO gun ownership then I think we disagree. Oh, and never look to the US as a role model.
To illustrate my point; I have never owned a gun or likely to however, if my wife/daughter were to be raped for example, there would be nothing to stop me going out with my gun and gunning down the individual responsible, except for the fact that I have no gun.
I dunno Siwtzerland has had an assault rifle in every house for years, and a remarkably low murder rate. Same for Finland, and Iceland, it's more a wealth/disconnection thing.
Thing is that generally doesn't happen. If you're serving in the Israeli army you're expected to take your gun, and ammo to the disco on your night off etc. But they have less booze related violence then us.
Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2008, 3:09 PM BSTI dunno Siwtzerland has had an assault rifle in every house for years, and a remarkably low murder rate. Same for Finland, and Iceland, it's more a wealth/disconnection thing.
Thing is that generally doesn't happen. If you're serving in the Israeli army you're expected to take your gun, and ammo to the disco on your night off etc. But they have less booze related violence then us.
Sorry mate, you'll have to explain these points better that you are trying to make, US, Switzerland, Finland, Iceland and Switzerland are all countries, but that's about as much as I have understood.
The Swiss are rich...simple as that. Guns don't kill people, poor people do.
You put guns into the hands of people whos day to day existence is on a parr with living in jail and they will kill each other for kicks.
Look at the knife crime stuff - the only people involved who have any chance of earning more than minimum wage are the occasional white kids that get caught in the middle.
We need more opportunities for those at the bottom (which is frustrating because have the scum dont even help themselves) not more weapons!
Well Switzerland, FInland have all got low poverty, low murder, high weapon ownership.
I'm saying that it's poverty not guns that kill.
I mean guns are illegal in the UK mostly, but it hasn't stopped are worryingly high murder rate.
Quote: Sofa_Matt @ July 2 2008, 3:20 PM BSTSorry mate, you'll have to explain these points better that you are trying to make
The jist is the Swiss (6 million in the whole country) are wealthy, happy, employed and content - they also own lots of guns and don't kill each other.
Gangs in Compton live 6 million to a block, have no job, hate each other and dont need guns because they beat each other to death with a baseball bat if they someone with nicer rims than they have.
Ok understand. I'm not sure that low poverty can be properly linked to high weapon ownership. Next you'll be telling me that cannabis causes mental health issues! (sorry personal soapbox taking over there)
The main point howver is that you can never really look at another country and think 'that's a good idea, we should do that' because those decisions always fail to take into account a country's culture and history. 24 hr drinking being a good example, on the continent it means 'oh good no need to rush out for a drink, they're not closing' here it means 'let's get pissed!
Maybe if more knife carrying criminals were shot, it would create a paradigmatic shift in our societies attitude towards violence.
n.b. excessive marijuana use can contribute to mental illness.
Also we need to get over our cultural cringe, we can be every bit as good as those Scandinavian countries.
Quote: Sofa_Matt @ July 2 2008, 3:34 PM BSTI'm not sure that low poverty can be properly linked to high weapon ownership.
It's not (lots of rich people have guns) - but poor people kill each other more readily.
If a rich man stabs his mate he doesnt get to go to the maldives in the summer, can't drive his Merc, losses his job, misses his wife.
Scum bag stabs his mate he'll get the better dinners in jail than he's used to and raping his cell mate is probably more fun than shagging the skanky hoe he pimps on the outside.
It's all about what you can loose.
So we should be nicer, and politer I'll go with that.
That said there's a steely, almost fascistic liberalism about them that's no bad thing.
Finland has a maximun sentence of 20 years for any crime. The idea being it is upto society to reform the criminal. Also they match fines to earnings (the founder of Nokia was fined £85,000 for speeding). And high taxes, mixed with generous social welfare avoids our poverty/resentment gap.
So I suppose that decency, and politeness, amy come from being an essentially fairer, more just society.
Quote: Pete @ July 2 2008, 3:48 PM BSTIt's not (lots of rich people have guns) - but poor people kill each other more readily.
If a rich man stabs his mate he doesnt get to go to the maldives in the summer, can't drive his Merc, losses his job, misses his wife.
Scum bag stabs his mate he'll get the better dinners in jail than he's used to and raping his cell mate is probably more fun than shagging the skanky hoe he pimps on the outside.
It's all about what you can loose.
You are Richard LittleJohn and I claim my 5 dollars.
That said having worked with homeless ex offenders, and junior crims you are right. The number of times people have said to me, the only thing you can't get in prison is sex with a woman.
I'm impressed. You've gone from 'lets arm civilians of good character' to understanding that decency and politeness will lead to a fairer more just society.
That must be some good shit you is smoking 