Quote: Aaron @ June 23 2008, 11:00 PM BSTI'd just like to see the smile wiped from his shiny, shiny face. The Zimbabwean Government must be the world's sole largest customer of Pledge.
I agree but it's not OUR problem - the more we interfere the more angry he gets. Don't forget we told his wife/girlfriend/whatever to leave Britain and he hates us for it.
Quote: Alan C @ June 23 2008, 11:02 PM BSTI agree but it's not OUR problem - the more we interfere the more angry he gets. Don't forget we told his wife/girlfriend/whatever to leave Britain and she died and he hates us for it.
I agree. I'm not advocating interference. It makes me extremely uncomfortable that we - and even moreso the US - should be imposing our will on or giving our money to other countries, particularly when our own is in such a mess.
Quote: Alan C @ June 23 2008, 11:02 PM BSTI agree but it's not OUR problem - the more we interfere the more angry he gets. Don't forget we told his wife/girlfriend/whatever to leave Britain and he hates us for it.
Well Rhodesia was originally a British colony, and rather nasty, racist little one at that. The British Imperium when out of it's way to make Zimbabwean blacks 3rd class citizens in their own country. We then essentially handed the whole mess over to Robert SMith, and berated him for carrying on what the Imperium did before.
We are hugely repsonsible if not to Mugabe, and his wretched wife (boo hoo, like most Refugees she had to struggle to prove her status, and was actively undermining a sovereign power at the time), then to the actual Zimbabwean people them selves.
There's also a certain degree of moral repsonsibility on us, as a wealthy and powerful Western power, to try and do some good. Or is it really I'm alright Jack.
Quote: sootyj @ June 23 2008, 11:49 PM BSTThere's also a certain degree of moral repsonsibility on us, as a wealthy and powerful Western power, to try and do some good. Or is it really I'm alright Jack.
Nope - all done and dusted 40 years ago.
Quote: Griff @ June 23 2008, 11:54 PM BST
Thanks guys I missed that
That's what I was thinking! The bloody Cure. I knew they were evil.
Quote: Alan C @ June 23 2008, 11:02 PM BSTI agree but it's not OUR problem - the more we interfere the more angry he gets. Don't forget we told his wife/girlfriend/whatever to leave Britain and he hates us for it.
Do you mean 'our' as in our government? Rather than they're on a different continent so they can f**k off.
I assume so.
Quote: zooo @ June 24 2008, 12:01 AM BSTDo you mean 'our' as in our government? Rather than they're on a different continent so they can f**k off.
I assume so.
I mean that we cannot be held repsonsible for what happens in every country we ever had as a 'colony' forty years after independence. Where does it stop? Are we responsible for what happens today in India as well? Sri Lanka? Pakistan? Australia? Canada? If we were still a colonial power - heaven forbid - I can understand that we would be responsible but not now. 40 years is a long time for a country to sort itself out IMO.
The UN must take the action, not Britain, or it would have no earthly chance of working
Mugabe doesn't respect us - he hates us and anything we do will make it worse
Can we not just shoot him in the face?
We normally let the Americans do that sort of thing
And the one time we want them to, they aren't. Typical. 
Who cares what he thinks? It's what his people need that count.
And frankly handing power to a nutty cabal, of white supremacists, as discharging our obligations? That's like asking Mandela to pay rent for his stay in RObin Island. Also our economy has benefited from loan repayments from Zimbabwe for years.
And frankly yes we can be held responsible, and yes we should. A million died in Indian partition.
And we didn't hand power to Mugabe, we handed it to Robert Smith. Like saving a child from Fritzell, and puting it into the care of Fred West.
The very least we can do as a nation is to try and clear up some of the mess we made in Africa.
And no that doesn't mean sending troops.
You're right about the UN, but they never, ever, do anything without some one goading them into it. It should be South Africa, and that's where we should be applying pressure.
Now that is sensible, or at least reomove the security councils veto.
That monsterous tool, has lead to millions of deaths.
I'm sorry if my stance sounds unfeeling - as a person I would like nothing better to see Mugabe kicked out of Zimbabwe but he's not the only one repressing his countrymen. There are many more and no one country can just walk in there and kick ass - even with historical links - this is why the UN was formed and if it is powerless to sort it out then get rid of the UN>
Why'd you take that down, it was a very sensible point.
