Which I couldn't agree with any stronger. (The point you're making, Jolanta, not the view of dealing with things.)
Let's not talk about Nazis and never teach kids about it. 
Would Till Death Us Do Part get an airing today? Page 2
I agree with Griff - if you open a thread and ask a question you are going to get dissenting voices (not much point in opening a thread just for everyone to agree with you surely?!). It seems that everyone who disagrees with you, Jolanta, is wrong or hard of understanding or talking bollocks. I understood where you were trying to go with the debate but quite often the focus is taken away and many people comment on previous posters and not the main topic.
I believe racist bigots should be the subject of comedy and front and centre in our minds. We are constantly being told not to forget what a monster Hitler was and he is given plenty of airtime. Driving characters like Alf Garnett underground and not being able to criticise their mentality only makes for so-called comedians like Roy Chubby Brown to prosper. I had the misfortune to see him in Blackpool with an ex-gf and he came out with one line that summed him up - I hate pakis coz they smell. He made no effort to make a serious attempt at a joke, just name calling, and he got the crowd cheering wildly. I see him in my local gym occasionally and he has the locals eating out of his hand ... all very sad.
Consider the times we live in where a Liberal Democrat council leader Tommy Taylor is being hauled up on a charge for describing some female colleagues as 'three nice bits of stuff' (as reportered this week) then the answer has to be no. However, if 'Till Death' was repackaged as, say, a 'Little Britain' sketch then the answer would be yes.
In today's political climate, it would get an airing in court when the writers were put on trial for incitement to racial hatred. Whether I agree with that scenario or whether the charge was totally unreasonable is irrelevant.
You could get away with it, but you'd have to cut out the racial terms. Even though, say compared with 'Love thy Neighbour' another show of the same time that too had a bigoted charactor who used racial terms, 'Till Death' is a show that doesn't get criticised and is seen, as it is, a classic sitcom, wheras 'Love thy Neighbour' gets heavily criticised as Till Death was a very clever sitcom that really did highlight a point and was really funny, Love thy Neighbour was anything but.
Quote: Griff @ June 20 2008, 2:11 PM BST[ the reason I say that Alf Garnett was of its time was that it was new and groundbreaking when it was written - but it would seem crashingly obvious and preachy now to have a character as one-dimensional as Alf. The need for the subject matter hasn't gone away. But it needs to be tackled differently.
I think it underestimates Johnny Speight's writing and Warren Mitchell's performance to call Alf Garnett one-dimensional. Had he been people would have grown bored of him, whereas this was a character who had an enormously long life. In any case the issue of acceptability would not have arisen if he had been unambiguous. Speight was a writer who lampooned what he saw rather than set out to preach and Mitchell was a gifted actor capable of embuing his creation with sympathy , and even dignity. I would certainly see Garnett as being no-more one dimensional than say Alan Partridge or David Brent.
I also think it is patronising to suggest that today's audiences are in some way more sophisticated. Yes there is a greater degree of sensitivity surrounding these issues, but not sadly in the heartlands of prejudice. Obvioulsy if Till Death us do Part was made today, it would be a very different show, just as In Sickness and in Health was a different show, but the fundamental approach would not necessarily be less valid.
I actually think the danger if such a show were made today would be that it would be more preachy and one-dimensional, in order to avoid the charge of political incorrectness that could arise from any degree of ambiguity and sophistication.
It probably wouldn't see the television screens again due to the barmy army of the people no longer seeing it as comedy. But, if it's said... So can be said about Love Thy Neighbour, parts of Monty Python and also Faulty Towers too.
The world has a gripe and complaint for everything now, that in itself is the funny part. 
Hello Andi, welcome, well said, etc. 
Quote: Aaron @ June 20 2008, 9:14 PM BSTHello Andi, welcome, well said, etc.
Thanks for the welcome.
There are other sitcoms from the same era that would probably go under the same heading, for example: It Ain't Half Hot Mum and Rising Damp. Both had slight possibilities of bordering racism and both still get repeated sometimes on UK Gold.
Flip of the coin though.. Goodness Gracious Me on the Beeb, some of the sketches on that portrayed the comedians being Muslim taking the mickey out of modern British life as a whole.
So it works both ways.
As with all these racist characters in comedies .. Eddie Booth, Alf Garnett, Rigsby - the writers always make them look stupid in the end.
Correct, couldn't agree more. In my opinion Speight is the greatest sitcom writer of all time. Till Death us do Part was a fascinating sitcom, gritty, like a 1960's/1970's Royle Family. Working class people in front of the telly, talking about issues that affect them, but Speight was a terrific satirist where all sides of an argument were produced. It's such a shame he is so mis-judged. But thrilled to hear Ben Elton call him a genius in a recent documentary. Speight is very underated.
Would you really call Rigsby a racist though. He was prejudice, but he didn't go on endless rants like Garnett and Booth about ethnic minorities. He came out with some racist comments, but was he really a racist. I think he disliked everybody- long haired, the young etc.
Quote: Jack Massey @ June 20 2008, 10:05 PM BSTWould you really call Rigsby a racist though.
He was certainly one of the milder examples
I know he's prejudice, but I just can't see any comparisons between Rigsby and that of Booth and Garnett.
Quote: Jack Massey @ June 20 2008, 10:13 PM BSTI know he's prejudice, but I just can't see any comparisons between Rigsby and that of Booth and Garnett.
Nope and I wouldn't have brought him up if Andi-b hadn't mentioned him in a prior post. I was led astray 
Rigsby was definitely prejudiced, yes. Whether he was racist is debatable. If we go by the common definition, then yes. If we go by the strict-OED definition, then no. If we go by the stereotypical "LET'S KILL THOSE FUCKING PAKIS" attitude that springs to mind all-too-often when racism is mentioned, then again, no.