Don't let Robyn hear that! 
Should we bring back the death penalty? Page 3
Quote: Aaron @ June 18 2008, 9:12 PM BSTDon't let Robyn hear that!
Meh she probably knows...
Quote: Timbo @ June 18 2008, 8:53 PM BSTNo objection in principle. There are offenders who never should be returned to society and I do not see much point in spending money keeping them banged up until they die of natural causes. But the risk of hanging the wrong man is too high. particularly as our police are a bunch of tossers.
Well it wouldn't be the decision of the police anyway. It would be the decision of the courts, the judge, the jury. The police are merely the first stage of a long system.
The idea that the police are a bunch of tossers is played upon too much, of course there are some amongst the ranks who are horrible. But that's people for you, of course not everyone is morally sound. You'll find that the proportion of people who are incompetent and annoying amongst the police force is just as high as it is in any other profession.
Is it better to hang an innocent man, or let a guilty one go free.
I say hang people who have commited 3 serious crimes already. Even if they didn't, they'll probably do something bad anyway.
And people who commit more than 3 serial killer indicating crimes, shoul be isolated from society permanently. Maybe on the Isle of White.
Quote: PhQnix @ June 18 2008, 9:48 PM BSTWell it wouldn't be the decision of the police anyway. It would be the decision of the courts, the judge, the jury. The police are merely the first stage of a long system.
The idea that the police are a bunch of tossers is played upon too much, of course there are some amongst the ranks who are horrible. But that's people for you, of course not everyone is morally sound. You'll find that the proportion of people who are incompetent and annoying amongst the police force is just as high as it is in any other profession.
I don't think he was talking on an individual level.
The Government of the day is just as much to blame as anyone else, setting out "guidelines" and "targets", restricting what the courts and police forces can do. Over regulation.
Quote: Aaron @ June 18 2008, 9:54 PM BSTI don't think he was talking on an individual level.
Oh. I thought this was about the sort of police most people encounter. It always seems to be an officer overzealously restricting people out of a love of power.
Quote: Aaron @ June 18 2008, 9:54 PM BSTThe Government of the day is just as much to blame as anyone else, setting out "guidelines" and "targets", restricting what the courts and police forces can do. Over regulation.
Good job sticking with your agenda no matter what the situation 
I don't think targets have affected the law enforcement agencies. Unless they've been told to reduce arrests, they may have done - I'm not sure. Could you explain further?
They have been restricted by paperwork though. This should be reduced in favour of a move back to the basics of policing and the police being an integral part of the community.
Quote: zooo @ June 18 2008, 7:15 PM BSTWas this convo with your son that is in the army? Or t'other one.
T' Other one.
Quote: PhQnix @ June 18 2008, 9:48 PM BSTYou'll find that the proportion of people who are incompetent and annoying amongst the police force is just as high as it is in any other profession.
At least. Having met many law enforcement officers socially, professionally and, er, professionally, I am well aware that one cannot tar all individuals with the same brush. Not all policemen are tossers. But law enforcement agencies do attract a disproportionate number of a certain type of tosser. And there are entrenched cultural attitudes that enforce those character traits. The police are not a representative cross-section of society, because a representative cross-section of society do not apply to join, and would not stay if they did. I personally believe that there is a problem that policemen tend to be recruited too young and then do their growing up within that environment. A view shared incidentally by an ex-policeman of my acquaintance.
The courts are a safeguard, but wrongful convictions as the result of police 'over-enthusiasm' are all to common.
Quote: PhQnix @ June 18 2008, 10:07 PM BSTGood job sticking with your agenda no matter what the situation
I'll stick by the truth all of the time.
Quote: PhQnix @ June 18 2008, 10:07 PM BSTI don't think targets have affected the law enforcement agencies. Unless they've been told to reduce arrests, they may have done - I'm not sure. Could you explain further?
They're issued "targets" (read: rules) on conviction rates, percentage of cases progressing to court, fines issued, etc. So they go after the soft, easy cases rather than those which are more serious, but consequently more complex and take longer to investigate and process. It's no coincidence that we read stories of people being arrested and/or fined for the tiniest, most ridiculous little thing imaginable whilst murders and rapes go unsolved, that they often tell you not to even bother reporting a stolen mobile, or that we hear every other week of how it took the police 3 hours to respond to a 999 call.
Quote: Aaron @ June 18 2008, 9:54 PM BSTThe Government of the day is just as much to blame as anyone else, setting out "guidelines" and "targets", restricting what the courts and police forces can do. Over regulation.
There is certainly a lot to that, but even with a move away from targets I think there is still enormous pressure on police to produce results, particularly in high profile operations.
A friend of mine recently had his life f**ked up as the result of a malicious and ludicrous prosecution that was quite obviously only pursued because police needed convict somebody - anybody- to justify the cost of an operation that had been a hugely expensive flop. Fortunately the judge showed more commonsense than the police or the CPS.
This is not new though - when I lived in Datcher 1995 I heard my car revving up outside at about midnight - I ran outside in just my jeans and saw my car disappearing round the corner. I ran round the corner and saw 4 more lads getting in the car. Crazily I shouted at them and even got my hand on the drivers door just as they drove off. If I had caught them at that point then God knows how that little scenario may have turned out! I ran back in the house, phoned the police, told them which direction they had gone in and they put me on hold - came back, gave me a crime number and told me they would get back to me. The next morning I was told my car was in the next village (Horton) - it had been abandoned, they had left the lights on and the battery was dead. Could I go and collect it because it was left near the village green anc causing an obstruction!!!!!
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2008, 9:52 PM BSTAnd people who commit more than 3 serial killer indicating crimes, shoul be isolated from society permanently. Maybe on the Isle of White.
Escape From Cowes just doesn't have the same ring to it...
The law is not infallible and therefore there is a possibility you can execute an innocent man it should not be enforced. However if a prisoner of proven sound mined chooses the death penalty then carry on Macduff.
Quote: Alan C @ June 18 2008, 10:30 PM BSTThis is not new though - when I lived in Datcher 1995 I heard my car revving up outside at about midnight - I ran outside in just my jeans and saw my car disappearing round the corner. I ran round the corner and saw 4 more lads getting in the car. Crazily I shouted at them and even got my hand on the drivers door just as they drove off. If I had caught them at that point then God knows how that little scenario may have turned out! I ran back in the house, phoned the police, told them which direction they had gone in and they put me on hold - came back, gave me a crime number and told me they would get back to me. The next morning I was told my car was in the next village (Horton) - it had been abandoned, they had left the lights on and the battery was dead. Could I go and collect it because it was left near the village green anc causing an obstruction!!!!!
I would like to express my shock. But I can't. Because I'm not.
By brother got a parking ticket a few weeks ago. Whilst making an official statement in the police station across the road. >_<
Quote: roscoff @ June 18 2008, 10:47 PM BSTThe law is not infallible and therefore there is a possibility you can execute an innocent man it should not be enforced. However if a prisoner of proven sound mined chooses the death penalty then carry on Macduff.
Well the Fred West's & Dennis Nielsen's of this world, sat in their own house with the remains of their victims all around them - I would have no hesitation in saying fry them.