Admin - Pilot Page 6

Quote: Aaron @ May 13 2008, 11:04 AM BST

That might be valid in terms of normal critiquing, but once a writer's work is broadast - pilot or not - then it's in the public domain and becomes public property. Once a show is made, it leaves that "one of us" realm and becomes open to just as much criticism or praise as Two Pints, The Young Ones, Dad's Army, Tittybangbang, Fawlty Towers, and so on. I'd have been just as harsh had my own brother written it.

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Wow, I'm surprised and disappointed in that. I thought there would be a bit more support for the people who contributed to your website. Especially as this was built up as 'one of our own members' on the front page. I'll certainly keep quiet about anything I do in the future.

Well, giving back slaps all round is just as damaging and very patronising.

Critique must always be honest, or it is instantly invalid. You can choose to say nothing, but you should never choose to be actively dishonest.

Frankly in the unlikely chance that a BBC comissioner should chance upon this site, what would they make of us if there was nothing by sycophantic praise?

I saw a bit of it yesterday, and it was ok, quite funny, but not brilliant.

A perfectly functional BBC3 sitcom, with some slightly school boyish crudity. I prefer I deal, but it's better than Placebo.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 11:34 AM BST

Wow, I'm surprised and disappointed in that. I thought there would be a bit more support for the people who contributed to your website. Especially as this was built up as 'one of our own members' on the front page. I'll certainly keep quiet about anything I do in the future.

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What it may or may not say on the front page is down to Mark.

Quite simply, I love comedy. Sitcoms especially. So when I see something I don't like, I'm not going to hold back in my criticism of it. Who wrote it, and however well I might know or be familiar with them, is entirely inconsequential. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice chap and has come up with good stuff. But Admin was just plain poor.

Quote: Seefacts @ May 13 2008, 11:37 AM BST

Well, giving back slaps all round is just as damaging and very patronising.

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Totally agree.

Quote: sootyj @ May 13 2008, 11:38 AM BST

Critique must always be honest, or it is instantly invalid. You can choose to say nothing, but you should never choose to be actively dishonest.

Frankly in the unlikely chance that a BBC comissioner should chance upon this site, what would they make of us if there was nothing by sycophantic praise?

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Also totally agree. Although I should add that such people DO visit the site and DO read what we say. Our no-holds-barred critiquing is what makes it worth their while to visit.

But Aaron, don't you think there is merit to approaching the giving of criticism in a slightly more tactful way? People are more likely to listen to criticism when it is well thought out and even in it's tone.

Especially given that some of criticism that has been posted on here has actually come across as being a little spiteful, perhaps indiciating a case of sour grapes/jealousy?

Quote: Seefacts @ May 13 2008, 11:37 AM BST

Well, giving back slaps all round is just as damaging and very patronising.

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Guys, I'm a bit surprised that you think there are two extremes: brutal honesty and sycophantic. Like you either have to be one or the other. You can be completely honest but not as harsh.

I thought we were proud to have a community of writers here, how discouraging is that when your respectful peers shoot you down. Just cos he's got something on tv doesn't mean he is a different person now.

Seefacts, your own story has been pretty inspiring but I can see people being put off telling there ones if they think we don't give a shit about them once they get somewhere.

Also isn't it good to have writers on board to speak to the comedy fans, any respect for that? Or do we not give a shit about anyone on here?

Quote: manchester's trendy chorlton @ May 13 2008, 11:53 AM BST

But Aaron, don't you think there is merit to approaching the giving of criticism in a slightly more tactful way?[/quiet]
That's true, but then haven't we been tactful? I highlighted a couple of points which did make me laugh, and equally pointed out what I particularly didn't like about the show, and I think everyone else did the same. No one's said that the writer should hang himself in shame. If you think that that people have been too harsh, then I would suggest that your more favourable opinion of the show may be creating a bias towards it.

[quote name="manchester's trendy chorlton" post="154773" date="May 13 2008, 11:53 AM BST"]Especially given that some of criticism that has been posted on here has actually come across as being a little spiteful, perhaps indiciating a case of sour grapes/jealousy?

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I can't really comment here, but I wouldn't have thought that what people have said is spiteful.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 11:55 AM BST

Guys, I'm a bit surprised that you think there are two extremes: brutal honesty and sycophantic. Like you either have to be one or the other. You can be completely honest but not as harsh.

I thought we were proud to have a community of writers here, how discouraging is that when your respectful peers shoot you down. Just cos he's got something on tv doesn't mean he is a different person now.

Seefacts, your own story has been pretty inspiring but I can see people being put off telling there ones if they think we don't give a shit about them once they get somewhere.

Also isn't it good to have writers on board to speak to the comedy fans, any respect for that? Or do we not give a shit about anyone on here?

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Well it's certainly a difficult position to be in.

From my own story - I've taken time to keep people up to date and everyone has been great and interested, and hopefully it's acted as a proof new writers can break through and also I've given tips and guidance which I hope have helped BUT when my big sitcom break does come (which I believe it will) what happens if you all think it's shit (you won't, mind )?

I've been an active board member for a while, and hopefully a recognisable poster but I don't expect any work I write to get ritually sucked off by others just because people have been interested in what I've got to say.

It wouldn't upset me either, as I know I'd be proud of my work and more importantly I'm confidence enough to think anything I write is good.

It's hard to balance. There are posters on here who I've enjoyed reading their thoughts and insights and stories, but when I read their stuff in critique it doesn't do much for me. That's life. I still like reading their posts though.

The fact that Admin has got a universal panning is an extreme I think. Normally every show gets mixed reaction on boards due to the cross-section of people on here. But when it comes down to it, it wasn't very good and there's not a lot else that you can say. Sometimes in life, things aren't very good - that's the way of the world.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 11:55 AM BST

Guys, I'm a bit surprised that you think there are two extremes: brutal honesty and sycophantic. Like you either have to be one or the other. You can be completely honest but not as harsh.

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In comparison to what they might be thinking about the show, I'm sure some people HAVE restrained themselves.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 11:55 AM BST

I thought we were proud to have a community of writers here, how discouraging is that when your respectful peers shoot you down. Just cos he's got something on tv doesn't mean he is a different person now.

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No, that's correct, but in order to get to this point I'm sure he's more than used to his work being criticised. And no one, as far as I saw, has made a personal insult. There haven't been pleas for him to hang himself in shame. The show is what's been criticised, and if it's deemed to be good enough to be made and broadcast, then it should expect to be attacked by those who dislike it.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 11:55 AM BST

Seefacts, your own story has been pretty inspiring but I can see people being put off telling there ones if they think we don't give a shit about them once they get somewhere.

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I don't think that there's anything but respect for someone who's actually managed to get their show that far. But again, the show has been criticised and not the writer personally. We shouldn't hold back just to spare feelings. If Susan Nickson was openly and actively a member, would people be more positive about Two Pints? I highly doubt it. Again, your more favourable view of Admin seems to be leading you to judge negative comments as being more harsh than otherwise.

Quote: Griff @ May 13 2008, 12:02 PM BST

On the other, well, surely there's a middle ground between "not giving patronising back slaps" and some of the comments that have been posted in this thread.
It seems a bit thankless when the writer has taken some time to give us the insider perspective, especially when we can be certain he will be reading our feedback. I guess that's the last time he'll make the effort to write any further pieces for us. Although the way some people choose to express themselves says more about them than the subject they are addressing, so he might not be too bothered. Anyway, he now has a TV commission after seven years of hard work, so I shouldn't think he gives a toss what we think. Good for him.

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Yeah, I doubt he does give a toss. I wouldn't.

Quote: manchester's trendy chorlton @ May 13 2008, 11:53 AM BST

But Aaron, don't you think there is merit to approaching the giving of criticism in a slightly more tactful way? People are more likely to listen to criticism when it is well thought out and even in it's tone.

Especially given that some of criticism that has been posted on here has actually come across as being a little spiteful, perhaps indiciating a case of sour grapes/jealousy?

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I agree, and also this for a guy who has taken time out to contribute to this website and would have formed some 'limited' relationships here. I've celebrated quite a few people's success on here, I would be pretty disappointed if those people then went for me with knives if I didn't pull something off.

I'm not just saying this for David, but for other posters here. He's like a lot of us, trying his best in life, we know that because he shares his time with us. I think that deserves a bit more respect over a complete stranger.

Quote: Seefacts @ May 13 2008, 12:05 PM BST

The fact that Admin has got a universal panning is an extreme I think.

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I don't think it has, to be honest. A lot of people seemed to like it.

Catch it on iPlayer, zooo! I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Quote: Aaron @ May 13 2008, 12:06 PM BST

Again, your more favourable view of Admin seems to be leading you to judge negative comments as being more harsh than otherwise.

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Well that's wrong because I haven't given a favourable view of the show at all, in fact I haven't given any yet. I have a favourable view that someone on here made a break through and deserved less bluntness. You can read what people have posted to see what I mean.

Yeah, Seefacts, you've put in a lot of effort to keeping us up to date, you didn't need to do that but in return I know if I think its shit I will be constructive about it. In fact your quote below sums up how you can be completely respectful but saying what you really think:

Quote: Seefacts @ May 13 2008, 12:05 PM BST

The fact that Admin has got a universal panning is an extreme I think. Normally every show gets mixed reaction on boards due to the cross-section of people on here. But when it comes down to it, it wasn't very good and there's not a lot else that you can say. Sometimes in life, things aren't very good - that's the way of the world.

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So fair play. It wasn't my cup of tea either BTW, but I'll add that I wish a fellow BCGer luck with it and future work.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ May 13 2008, 12:22 PM BST

Well that's wrong because I haven't given a favourable view of the show at all, in fact I haven't given any yet. I have a favourable view that someone on here made a break through and deserved less bluntness. You can read what people have posted to see what I mean.

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Ok, fair enough. I still think that people have been pretty fair in comparison to what they could have said, but I suppose we'll have to disagree.

Either way, the one thing I think everyone has agreed on is that it's good to see a new writer given a chance, and best of luck in future.