Another Leevil sitcom Page 3

Quote: James Williams @ April 19 2008, 1:31 PM BST

I agree with Sooty. Certainly it didn't make me laugh so in that sense for me it failed. In a way I thought it was built on weak foundations in that I don't think it's sufficient to say "the characters are exactly the same but what the heck."

I quite liked the "we've got a rabbit" bit.

I think once a structure is in place (plot, characters etc.) you may have something to work with. However, I suppose NGO started with loads of gags and worked backwards (not entirely succesfully though).

It smacked of a talented writer with five minutes to half an hour on his hands tossing something off without being really being bothered to plan it or finish it, which I guess is what it was. I think this approach might work for sketch writing, but some degree of discipline is required for longer pieces.

I would also strongly advise against seeking feedback when you've only written one scene of a sitcom. And I think any writer worth their salt will tell you the same.

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Leevil admitted he'd just knocked it up. And I don't think it has no foundations, it's just one scene - it doesn't need any, it's just a taster.

There's not just one way to go about starting to write a sitcom, so don't give it the old 'any writer worth his salt' nonsense.

Of course he'll need to plan it to get it further, and I hope he does as Leevil can do what only one or two on here can, write decent funny dialogue.

I don't think the characters were any less or more different than in your sitcom piece, James. Planning or no planning.

Quote: Seefacts @ April 19 2008, 7:25 PM BST

Leevil admitted he'd just knocked it up. And I don't think it has no foundations, it's just one scene - it doesn't need any, it's just a taster.

There's not just one way to go about starting to write a sitcom, so don't give it the old 'any writer worth his salt' nonsense.

Of course he'll need to plan it to get it further, and I hope he does as Leevil can do what only one or two on here can, write decent funny dialogue.

I don't think the characters were any less or more different than in your sitcom piece, James. Planning or no planning.

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Any time I say something, your fuzzy, self-congratulatory pixelated face pops up with a dig - usually at my sitcom. Give it a rest, (I mean, what the hell has my writing got to do with anything?!*) or at least when the bile begins to rise f**k off and spew it somewhere else.

*And you don't have to be able to write to be a critic. Maybe when you're getting your Bafta-winning though oddly elusive sitcom/s produced it will be me who saw their genius and commissioned them.

I still believe most experienced writers don't judge it wise to slap up a dashed-out first instalment of a yet-to-be-written longer piece *if* they eventually want it to go anywhere. Asking for feedback prematurely is often a mistake because people can either knock your confidence or give good feedback and sap your drive/momentum to finish the whole piece. Certainly this is what most interviews and literature I've read would suggest (and I happen to agree with it). Just because you don't read such material because you already know it all doesn't mean the opinion doesn't have merit... it certainly doesn't warrant your dismissing it as "nonsense."

Of course, Lee(vil) isn't an experienced writer so in this context if he wants to guage opinion then ok - but I was merely adding that it doesn't seem to be recommended by those who know what they're doing. Knocking out ideas for a sketch is one thing, but... it can be a fine line.

But I understand that perhaps this opinion was put across a little forcefully. I'm sure there are successful writers out there who cannot resist the urge to share every 5 minutes. (I also note that you're not one of them, Seefacts. In fact I don't think you've ever posted anything creative here. Of course you're afraid of looters picking your brains for nuggets of genius. I must admit I find it difficult to take you seriously though, especially when you behave in such an aggressive manner. But hey, what do you care!)

I apologise Leevil and don't wish this thread to be decommissioned into a platform for a silly spat. But I have maily expanded on some of my original comments. If I spoke in such a way that Seefacts felt he had to rush to your defence, I suppose I'd better reiterate that I think you are a talented writer. I guess I just think it's a mistake to do a rush-job on things if you want it to go places. I was just advising caution and trying to be a little helpful.

Quote: James Williams @ April 19 2008, 8:34 PM BST

Any time I say something, your fuzzy, self-congratulatory pixelated face pops up with a dig - usually at my sitcom. Give it a rest, (I mean, what the hell has my writing got to do with anything?!*) or at least when the bile begins to rise f**k off and spew it somewhere else.

*And you don't have to be able to write to be a critic. Maybe when you're getting your Bafta-winning though oddly elusive sitcom/s produced it will be me who saw their genius and commissioned them.

I still believe most experienced writers don't judge it wise to slap up a dashed-out first instalment of a yet-to-be-written longer piece *if* they eventually want it to go anywhere. Asking for feedback prematurely is often a mistake because people can either knock your confidence or give good feedback and sap your drive/momentum to finish the whole piece. Certainly this is what most interviews and literature I've read would suggest (and I happen to agree with it). Just because you don't read such material because you already know it all doesn't mean the opinion doesn't have merit... it certainly doesn't warrant your dismissing it as "nonsense."

Of course, Lee(vil) isn't an experienced writer so in this context if he wants to guage opinion then ok - but I was merely adding that it doesn't seem to be recommended by those who know what they're doing. Knocking out ideas for a sketch is one thing, but... it can be a fine line.

But I understand that perhaps this opinion was put across a little forcefully. I'm sure there are successful writers out there who cannot resist the urge to share every 5 minutes. (I also note that you're not one of them, Seefacts. In fact I don't think you've ever posted anything creative here. Of course you're afraid of looters picking your brains for nuggets of genius. I must admit I find it difficult to take you seriously though, especially when you behave in such an aggressive manner. But hey, what do you care!)

I apologise Leevil and don't wish this thread to be decommissioned into a platform for a silly spat. But I have maily expanded on some of my original comments. If I spoke in such a way that Seefacts felt he had to rush to your defence, I suppose I'd better reiterate that I think you are a talented writer. I guess I just think it's a mistake to do a rush-job on things if you want it to go places. I was just advising caution and trying to be a little helpful.

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I was defending Leevil after you decided to say something along the lines of 'Proper writers don't do this'. You can say I'm 'self congratulatory' all you like, personal insults don't affect me one bit. I'm judging people on their attitudes put forward in their posts. And your exuded smugness, as in the past with your attitude of if you didn't sweat over it for 400 years, you're not a proper writer. And I don't want to be seen as 'self-congratulatory', if you think that then don't get involved in any thread where I've been discussing what I've been doing . . . Oh, you don't anyway. I wonder why?

And you can call my work 'oddly elusive' whatever that means - but MY work isn't under discussion here, and until it gets made it never will be as it's not in the public domain. Yours is, that's why it's been discussed. I'm sure you can have a smile if the Beeb turn it down, I'll keep you informed.

I know I slighted you in the past on your sitcom thread, where any good or worth in your work was totally outweighed and destroyed by your attitude. But as far as I'm concerned, this is a discussion forum and if everyone agreed all the time it'd be very dull.

This isn't a forum full of regularly contributing commissioning editors, so it doesn't matter is Leevil posts early versions of his work or not. It's NOT going to affect him one bit. I'm not sure WHY he posted it, I suppose. Maybe he just wanted a confidence boost, who knows?

"doesn't seem to be recommended by those who know what they're doing" - ergo Leevil is a big no-hoper who's not a pro. I've never heard such a piece of writing advice ever.

I don't post here for the reason I've discussed elsewhere. All of my portfolio of work - three pilots and a load of sketches have been critiqued by people in the industry. I'm happy with the feedback and have acted accordingly on it. I don't want any more feedback. I've got other projects at the mo.

I'd rather sit back and just write rather than keep saying 'Is this good?'. My brother can read my work, that'll do me.

Fare enough you giving advice, that's not an issue BUT it's the way you gave it, that's all.

I'm not going to get into a spat, as you say it'll derail any proper discussion on Lee's work.

So hopefully we can call a truce. This can't turned into the 'Honest Question' thread!!

I'm going to be hating Dara O'Brian for a while, so my bile can be directed at him.

OK.
Out of interest, why are you going to be hating Dara O'Briain? (Sorry to be off-topic!)

Quote: James Williams @ April 19 2008, 9:04 PM BST

OK.
Out of interest, why are you going to be hating Dara O'Briain? (Sorry to be off-topic!)

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See the general discussion thread!

You're not a fan, are you?

Wouldn't surprise me . . .

Also lets hope we don't clash again, and nothing goes above 'hearty discussion'. I don't think anyone here is after enemies.

Incidentally, re: planning. I'm in both camps. I will start off writing from nothing, like Leevil has done. To see if the dynamics work between my characters, and see what traits get thrown up. So he's made a solid start.

Then a la you James, I'll plan my balls off until I know the thing inside as as I piece it together.

If Lee does this, he'll have a strong pilot episode on his hands - I think we're all agreed.

Bet you a fiver he can't be arsed though.

Quote: Seefacts @ April 19 2008, 9:08 PM BST

I don't think anyone here is after enemies.

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You bastard

And I liked it Lee, I'm not going into a massive list of good and bad things, because it's only one scene... Do hope to see more old bean.

Quote: Leevil @ April 18 2008, 10:11 AM BST

I'll redo the description when I get to the end, I need to finish it, this is my goal.

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You'd better, you bastard!

Quote: Leevil @ April 19 2008, 1:59 PM BST

If that puts people off and they feel they'd rather not spend their time reading something that has no intention of going anyway, that's fair enough...

It's just a fun piece.

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You bastard!

Quote: Seefacts @ April 19 2008, 9:08 PM BST

If Lee does this, he'll have a strong pilot episode on his hands - I think we're all agreed.

Bet you a fiver he can't be arsed though.

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MAKE SEEFACTS LOSE HIS FIVER YOU LAZY GIT!

Quote: Seefacts @ April 19 2008, 9:08 PM BST

Bet you a fiver he can't be arsed though.

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Thanks for all that, everyone above this post.

Just leave a smile and walk away...

Quote: Badge @ April 21 2008, 12:09 AM BST

MAKE SEEFACTS LOSE HIS FIVER YOU LAZY GIT!

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I can't afford to lose a fiver . . . Have mercy.

Bump for thoughts from new members. I'm trying to have another go at this but I'm drawing blanks at the moment.

Leevil....

As others point out, you do have a talent for free-flowing, easy dialogue. The jokes are light yet funny, and the quick cutting back and forth is effective.

I agree that the two characters are too similar - though it worked ok for "Men behaving badly".. how about switching Mark to be a female? That way you'd have an instant contrast, and she could take the female point of view on the split-up? She might also harbour a secret crush on Lee??

Now to your main problem - I am going to guess that you like to work on the fun stuff, without having to plot out the overall journey? I believe that you'd be better off working with a writing partner - preferably one that is good at the overall story development and plotting aspects - looks like it almost hurts you to try to think of storylines longer than one or two scenes? With the right partner, this could work well.

Hope that helps?

Thanks for the feedback. You are so right, I might have to start closing my curtains at night.

I do have an idea for a storyline here. Which incidentally see's Mark being replaced with a female character or at least as Lee's best friend. I don't want to say too much, a writing partner would be ideal at this moment (but I am hard to work with (lazy)).

Thanks again.

Quote: Leevil @ December 2 2008, 7:25 PM GMT

Thanks for the feedback. You are so right, I might have to start closing my curtains at night.

I do have an idea for a storyline here. Which incidentally see's Mark being replaced with a female character or at least as Lee's best friend. I don't want to say too much, a writing partner would be ideal at this moment (but I am hard to work with (lazy)).

Thanks again.

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Christ on a bike. Don't be so lazy!!

Where's your motivation? Do you already have a cool job, like footballer or something?

LOL. Just LOL.

You really are a very lazy, young man, Leevil! If you can't write a sitcom script on your own then you'll never be a sitcom writer!