Quote: Chris Hallam @ 3rd March 2025, 1:40 PMNot denying that.
But I doubt anyone reads those bits anyway. Cut them out and people will take you more seriously.
I would also like you to cut them out for the good of the community, lofthouse. It's quite unpleasant to read even when one agrees.
Quote: Chris Hallam @ 3rd March 2025, 1:40 PMNot denying that.
But I doubt anyone reads those bits anyway. Cut them out and people will take you more seriously.
âď¸VG - You won't/don't see me on this thread so much now, as I will not read lofthouse's posts, what with them being so tiresome
I will read yours or say Lazzard, but that is it, and as I don't agree with either of you 99% of the time, I still read and shrug my shoulders - I'm 80 now and a whole new mind-set has come over me, mainly being it's not worth the arse-ache to argue
Trump has sold out Europe as well as Ukraine. He also believes that he can take over Canada and crush Mexico. Alongside that he has eyes on Panama and Greenland. Let's be honest we live in dangerous times due to the election of a compromised, corrupt megalomanic.
This is going to get bad and fast, the former soviet states that had enjoyed freedom will no doubt rearm and be ready to die rather than go back under the yoke.
Be in no doubt America can no longer be trusted if anything it should be feared as its aims are now contrary to our safety and well being, we have another Hitler in our midst and unless we accept that and form up with our European allies we are in big trouble.
The age of the idiot is over, its down to the grown ups now!
Well it's supposed to be what NATO was formed for, but as the US is the main provider and this Trump govt is fed up with that, with some others clearly not pulling their weight (like France) it's now suddenly in big doubt about how effective it would be in a European crisis, if Trump decides to lessen USA's role or pull out altogether. His apparent friendship with Putin is an even bigger worry now.
But there's no way the country will let him turn against Europe militarily or let him become another Hitler. He may be the head supremo, but there's enough power in their political system to step in and stop anything resembling a war on their allies if he ever were to be that unhinged (which I do doubt tbh. I think a lot of his ranting is done to get people more aligned to his America first policies).
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 4th March 2025, 9:49 AMWell it's supposed to be what NATO was formed for, but as the US is the main provider and this Trump govt is fed up with that, with some others clearly not pulling their weight (like France) it's now suddenly in big doubt about how effective it would be in a European crisis, if Trump decides to lessen USA's role or pull out altogether. His apparent friendship with Putin is an even bigger worry now.
But I don't think the country will let him turn against Europe militarily or let him become another Hitler. He may be the head supremo, but there's enough power in their political system to step in and stop anything resembling a war on their allies if he ever were to be that unhinged (which I do doubt tbh. I think a lot of his ranting is done to get people more aligned to his America first policies).
But who is to step up? America is now being ran by a lunatic and around him in key posts are TV anchors, Christian Fundamentalists, Vaccine Deniers and a whole host of right wing fanatics.
The Democrats are a spent force the FBI and CIA have had their teeth pulled that basically leaves the armed forces, do we really want to see the generals take over?
What has started as the normal blackmailing corporate deal that Trump thinks he has mastered is getting rapidly out of hand and will take on a life of its own as at this point in history the only people the USA are aligned with is Russia North Korea and Netanyahu who is currently surrounded by dead kids and destroyed communities!
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 4th March 2025, 10:09 AMBut who is to step up?
We should.
On our own or as part of a European block?
As it stands we could agree to a defence deal with the Europeans while at the same time have the Brexit constrictions, I don't see how that works?
We either go all in or go it alone,
Fine in principle but we can't afford it and it would be political suicide for Labour to increase our taxes even more, so their self interest rules it out. The military was severely underfunded by the Tories of course, but if Labour had won in 2019 (like they really should've with a sensible leader) they'd have turned the armed forces into a 'Peace Corps'! so it could've been worse. âđťđď¸âđť
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 4th March 2025, 10:28 AMFine in principle but we can't afford it and it would be political suicide for Labour to increase our taxes even more, so their self interest rules it out. The military was severely underfunded by the Tories of course, but if Labour had won in 2019 (like they really should've with a sensible leader) they'd have turned the armed services into a 'Peace Core'! so it could've been worse!
We have to afford it, as it stands America is blackmailing most of the free world via tariffs and right wing accusations about the lack of free speech etc.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 4th March 2025, 10:26 AMOn our own or as part of a European block?
As it stands we could agree to a defence deal with the Europeans while at the same time have the Brexit constrictions, I don't see how that works?
We either go all in or go it alone,
We should be strong and bold enough to go alone if necessary. This incident proves you cannot rely from one administration to the next on any other country, no matter how strong an alliance you think you have.
The EU whilst we were a member had no military organisation so conflating any issues of cooperation there is a quite fulsome red herring.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 4th March 2025, 10:28 AMFine in principle but we can't afford it and it would be political suicide for Labour to increase our taxes even more, so their self interest rules it out. The military was severely underfunded by the Tories of course, but if Labour had won in 2019 (like they really should've with a sensible leader) they'd have turned the armed forces into a 'Peace Core'! so it could've been worse. âđťđď¸âđť
The military has been severely underfunded under both parties for many decades. Indeed, that's true of the whole of Europe. The one thing I agree with Trump on is that none of us in the west should now, or have ever, simply rely on the US to provide security.
Even if we went alone the logistics such as overland and airspace access would be require levels of cooperation with European states that Brexit does not allow.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 4th March 2025, 10:48 AMEven if we went alone the logistics such as overland and airspace access would be require levels of cooperation with European states that Brexit does not allow.
I think between us , we'd work round that.
We will have no choice.
Quote: Lazzard @ 4th March 2025, 10:51 AMI think between us , we'd work round that.
We will have no choice.
You would assume that but what about the Brexit zealots they can't be spoken to its almost a mental illness and its their type of approach that has helped get us to where we are now.
All it will take to scupper our role is Russian/ Musk social media crap and offshore agents such as Farage, Tice Oakshott and the Mail to get the Brexiteers blood up even higher.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 4th March 2025, 10:48 AMEven if we went alone the logistics such as overland and airspace access would be require levels of cooperation with European states that Brexit does not allow.
Absolutely no reason for that to be the case. All European states, and the EU itself, seem to be in alignment now that co-operation is needed over the war, so there's no reason any deals that might be necessary cannot be done.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 4th March 2025, 10:57 AMYou would assume that but what about the Brexit zealots they can't be spoken to its almost a mental illness and its their type of approach that has helped get us to where we are now.
All it will take to scupper our role is Russian/ Musk social media crap and offshore agents such as Farage, Tice Oakshott and the Mail to get the Brexiteers blood up even higher.
I'd very happily and proudly self-identify as what you call a "Brexit zealot". Military cooperation for defence and security against a regional aggressor the likes of which we genuinely haven't seen since the 1930s is laudable. It is also not political alignment.
I'm sorry Arron but your pragmatism is not shared by many when it comes to cooperation with Europe on any issue or any level.
Farage et al would turn us against each other on the issue and they are in bed with both Putin and Trump and they would scupper the deal.
We have reached the point where we either admit to being Europeans or a declined offshore empire that is waiting to be picked off via misplaced arrogance.