Godot Taxis
Wednesday 10th July 2024 1:55am [Edited]
5,749 posts
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
Corbyn fought two elections that were essentially two horse races - hence a much larger vote share
And why were they 'two-horse races'? That's right, because the Tory vote didn't collapse, like it did in this one. Labour got almost exactly the same percentage of the vote this time as it got in 2019. The Tories got 20% less (19.8%).
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
This election was completely different- Lib Dems did remarkably well seats wise, Reform had a large vote share, and there was mass tactical voting by Labour voters who didn't want to waste their votes in constituencies that Labour couldn't win - so lent their votes elsewhere, like Lazzard
The Lib Dem vote increased because the Tory vote collapsed. Do you not understand how great a 20% loss of vote share is? Where do you think it went since Labour's vote didn't increase? The collapsing Tory vote was shared out across Reform and the Lib Debs. Of course a few Conservative voters may have opted for Starmer, but their vote is offset by the bleed of former Labour voters to the Greens and other independents because the Labour vote didn't grow.
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
share in fptp Is irrelevant, its seats that matter
Labour got f**kin 400 plus and beat the shit out of the Tories
That's why FPTP isn't used anywhere else in the world except Belarus - it's fundamentally undemocratic.
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
Corbyn is a f**king loser and only cares about himself and his stupid ego
Corbyn won his seat as an independent, with a 7K majority. The eleventh time he's been elected to Parliament. You might not like him, but the last thing he is is a loser. He actually got 8K more votes than Starmer in a constituency with almost exactly the same size of electorate. Starmer's vote was down 15% on 2019 and is now 17K - a far cry from the 41K it was in 2017 when he was a friend of Jeremy Corbyn.
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
Starmer on the other hand is the Prime Minister - a winner. He transformed the party and took power
Starmer has marginalised the left in the party by prescribing left wing groups (but not right wing ones), expelling left-wing members for bogus reasons (one member was famously expelled for liking a tweet by Nicola Sturgeon saying she hadn't tested positive for Covid), depressing the membership by completely junking the 2017 manifesto, which he described as a 'foundational document' in his election campaign. Lied to get elected, presenting himself as 'Corbyn in a suit' and wasted the 13m we had in the coffers after 2019 on legal cases against ex-staffers. By any metric he's been a disaster for the Party. Yes we're in government, but we have a bunch of genuinely awful corporate lobbyists as MPs and a chancellor who used to work for HBOS and is committed to £20 billion of Tory spending cuts.
Quote: lofthouse @ 5th July 2024, 10:09 PM
Corbyn virtually destroyed the party and was one of the worst Labour leaders in history
You watch too much GMB TV. Corbyn achieved a hung parliament in 2017 with 12m votes and 40% share with a progressive manifesto, committing to re-nationalise all public utilities and invest 28b in green energy. He was, until Starmer, the only Labour leader to gain seats at an election this century (30) reversing the poor performances of Brown and Miliband. He didn't win an election, but he would have won this one, as would Miliband, and even Kinnock.
The Labour Party has always had a membership that is much more left wing than its parliamentary caucasus and administrative staff. Corbyn was elected leader twice and received the largest mandate from the membership of any leader in the Party's history. He faced an internal battle from 2015 and was never able to wrest the Party away from the right. It is now so entrenched that I think it's likely that the Labour Party will replace the Conservative Party as the vehicle of the centre right and what few left wingers in Labour that remain - both MPs and members will decamp to the Greens.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 8th July 2024, 7:42 AM
It was a catastrophic Tory collapse, not a resounding vote for Labour. Usual Tory voters swung over to Reform and Libdems in huge numbers. Starmer's 33.7% of the votes was significantly less than Corbyn's 40.2% in 2017, hardly a searing endorsement of the new leader.
And it has to be said, without Farage's 11th hour stunt, the Tories would have won a lot more seats. The result due to FPTP flatters Labour hugely and they won't get anywhere near that number of seats next time if the Tories win back the Reform voters.
Absolutely correct.
