Quote: billwill @ 13th October 2023, 12:29 PMWell it seems that back in the 90's (which was probably the heydays of sitcoms) the industry managed quite well without ever using the word Beat in that way.
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In what way? The stage direction way or the script way?
The Analytical way. Counting the 'beats' in a scene.
Oh forget it, I can't be bothered to keep going on about a subject that boils down to micro-managing script-writers.
It isn't necessary talented writers will get the so called 'beats' right instinctively.
It's like recommending that a talented computer programmer should always have X subroutines or functions in every major portion of a computer program.
IMO counting 'beats' is a false target, deflecting and obscuring talent and leading to formulaic films/tv-shows.
Quote: billwill @ 13th October 2023, 12:55 PMThe Analytical way. Counting the 'beats' in a scene.
Oh forget it, I can't be bothered to keep going on about a subject that boils down to micro-managing script-writers.
It isn't necessary talented writers will get the so called 'beats' right instinctively.It's like recommending that a talented computer programmer should always have X subroutines or functions in every major portion of a computer program.
IMO counting 'beats' is a false target, deflecting and obscuring talent and leading to formulaic films/tv-shows.
Writers who think instinct is enough are deluding themselves. Do you think Succession was written by instinct?
This is directed at Hildegard rather than anyone else.
Not sure if I've mentioned this before but there's a very good book by David Baboulene called "The Story Book".
Ran into him when he did a story-consultant stint on a screenplay I was working on.
He has a rather 'unique' writing style ( a bit 'blokey') - but his explanation of dramatic irony was a game-changer for me.
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th October 2023, 2:59 PMThis is directed at Hildegard rather than anyone else.
Not sure if I've mentioned this before but there's a very good book by David Baboulene called "The Story Book".
Ran into him when he did a story-consultant stint on a screenplay I was working on.
He has a rather 'unique' writing style ( a bit 'blokey') - but his explanation of dramatic irony was a game-changer for me.
Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm writing a comedy drama, which is a whole other level of confusion that no one can seem to agree on.
Quote: Hildegard @ 13th October 2023, 11:56 AMSpeaking as an actor, the pause beat is just accepted practice. It's not a gimmick, it's a useful direction.
Then what's wrong with PAUSE in the direction instead of BEAT? Long established usage in theatre scripts so why supplant it with this horrible Americanised version?
And it's still not needed in a pre production script as you have a director who likes to inform actors where to pause as you know, unless they've worked it out for themselves.
A script is never absolute either, it's not you the writer who determines how much of it is adhered to, it's the performers and their directors. So there is no need for all the minutiae in spec scripts. All they want to see is a piece that's original, appealing and funny. The fine tuning comes much later.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 13th October 2023, 3:08 PMThen what's wrong with PAUSE in the direction instead of BEAT? Long established usage in theatre scripts so why supplant it with this horrible Americanised version?
And it's still not needed in a pre producscript as you have a director who likes to inform actors where to pause as you know, unless they've worked it out for themselves.
A script is never absolute either, it's not you the writer who determines how much of it is adhered to, it's the performers and their directors. So there is no need for all the minutiae in pre commissioned scripts until asked for, which is usually about rehearsal stage.
Pause is a very vague word. Is it a one second pause? A ten second pause? Beat is clear.
What position are you stating all this from? Are you an actor? A writer? A producer?
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 13th October 2023, 3:08 PMThen what's wrong with PAUSE in the direction instead of BEAT? Long established usage in theatre scripts so why supplant it with this horrible Americanised version?
And it's still not needed in a pre producscript as you have a director who likes to inform actors where to pause as you know, unless they've worked it out for themselves.
A script is never absolute either, it's not you the writer who determines how much of it is adhered to, it's the performers and their directors. So there is no need for all the minutiae in pre commissioned scripts until asked for, which is usually about rehearsal stage.
Most comedies are written in screenplay format.
'Beat' is accepted screenplay practice.
Of course a script is never absolute - but when someone reads it for the first time, you want it to come across the way you intended it to.
So you write in where you want the actor to take a beat.
it's not complicated.
Quote: Hildegard @ 13th October 2023, 3:05 PMThanks, I'll check that out. I'm writing a comedy drama, which is a whole other level of confusion that no one can seem to agree on.
No confusion, IMHO
it's a drama that's funny.
Follows all the same rules as a drama.
The only problem is that people tend to be looking for multi-season potential, so the dénouement of the Series Arc has to allow you some sort of opportunity for a re-set, so you can do the whole thing again.
In other words - don't kill everyone.
And - while we're talking beats and all things structural you might want to check out a piece of software called Causality by Hollywood Camera Work.
A very different approach that allows you to write your script within the software in non-daunting chunks.
Plus loads of tracking feautures.
Takes a bit of working out - so if software's not your thing, it might not be for you.
I'm writing everything on it at the moment - but I'm a sucker for punishment!
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th October 2023, 3:36 PMNo confusion, IMHO
it's a drama that's funny.
Follows all the same rules as a drama.
The only problem is that people tend to be looking for multi-season potential, so the dénouement of the Series Arc has to allow you some sort of opportunity for a re-set, so you can do the whole thing again.
In other words - don't kill everyone.
As an exercise, if you fancy it, ask several different industry professionals to define comedy drama and see what they say 
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th October 2023, 6:02 PMAnd - while we're talking beats and all things structural you might want to check out a piece of software called Causality by Hollywood Camera Work.
A very different approach that allows you to write your script within the software in non-daunting chunks.
Plus loads of tracking feautures.
Takes a bit of working out - so if software's not your thing, it might not be for you.
I'm writing everything on it at the moment - but I'm a sucker for punishment!
Ooh, sounds intriguing!
Quote: Hildegard @ 13th October 2023, 6:08 PMAs an exercise, if you fancy it, ask several different industry professionals to define comedy drama and see what they say
!
Ah - I thought you meant structurally.
And, yes, it's a minefield.
I'm finding the best way is to just to duck the question.
Currently working on "A high-octane thriller with a streak of dark comedy"
That'll fool 'em.
I can't even say the word 'Dramedy' without feeling faintly nauseous, whilst simultaneously mourning the death of the english language.
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th October 2023, 6:39 PMAh - I thought you meant structurally.
And, yes, it's a minefield.
I'm finding the best way is to just to duck the question.
Currently working on "A high-octane thriller with a streak of dark comedy"
That'll fool 'em.
I can't even say the word 'Dramedy' without feeling faintly nauseous, whilst simultaneously mourning the death of the english language.
I refuse to use the word dramedy, it brings me out in hives.
Quote: Lazzard @ 13th October 2023, 2:59 PMThis is directed at Hildegard rather than anyone else.
Not sure if I've mentioned this before but there's a very good book by David Baboulene called "The Story Book".
Ran into him when he did a story-consultant stint on a screenplay I was working on.
He has a rather 'unique' writing style ( a bit 'blokey') - but his explanation of dramatic irony was a game-changer for me.
I downloaded it on Audible, bloody hell what an interesting book! The stuff on Freud's ID and Super Ego have already allowed me to tighten up my main character.
He narrates it himself, which softens the 'blokey' stuff.
Thanks for the recommendation!
The bit on "knowledge gaps" is good.