Speaking for myself my first drafts never get off the desk - there's always something bugging me, something that's not working.
That's where a knowledge of structure is useful.
Finding people to give you honest feedback is hard - and to be honest, I 'm not sure I'd pay much attention to my agent!
I wasn't sure what comedy beats are but it got me clicking my fingers in a smooth criminal kind of way so looked it up and from what I've read pauses for audience reactions are a component because the reactions require pauses and influence the flow of the material. I remember reading somewhere that when filming Fawlty Towers, John Cleese didn't like how the pauses for laughter were slowing down the action and ruining the energy so delivery of lines following a gag were quicker with much less time waiting for the laughter/applause to fade. Sitcoms without laughter can work well because there's nothing to slow down the dialogue and a writer can take full advantage of this such as with Scrubs and Inbetweeners.
I wasn't being sarky. I just didn't understand what they were. Jokes? I couldn't understand why you asked the question without knowing what they were. I didn't get where you got the word Beats from.
Quote: Chappers @ 12th October 2023, 7:14 PMI wasn't being sarky. I just didn't understand what they were. Jokes? I couldn't understand why you asked the question without knowing what they were. I didn't get where you got the word Beats from.
I do know what they are, I just struggle with them. If I didn't know what they were why would I ask how many of them are usually in a pilot?
Quote: Hildegard @ 12th October 2023, 7:26 PMI do know what they are, I just struggle with them. If I didn't know what they were why would I ask how many of them are usually in a pilot?
How can we answer if we don't know what you're talking about? Or even understand?
Quote: Chappers @ 12th October 2023, 7:35 PMHow can we answer if we don't know what you're talking about? Or even understand?
If you don't understand a question then don't answer it 🤷♀️ Most comedy writers know what beats are even if they're not entirely sure how to apply them. Anyway, this is too strange a convo for me so I'll leave you to it 🙂
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 12th October 2023, 7:00 PMI wasn't sure what comedy beats are but it got me clicking my fingers in a smooth criminal kind of way so looked it up and from what I've read pauses for audience reactions are a component because the reactions require pauses and influence the flow of the material. I remember reading somewhere that when filming Fawlty Towers, John Cleese didn't like how the pauses for laughter were slowing down the action and ruining the energy so delivery of lines following a gag were quicker with much less time waiting for the laughter/applause to fade. Sitcoms without laughter can work well because there's nothing to slow down the dialogue and a writer can take full advantage of this such as with Scrubs and Inbetweeners.
Ah, interesting about Cleese.
It's like those videos on Youtube of 'Friends without laugh track'. The entire mood of the scenes becomes awkward now that every few lines of dialogue are followed by a couple of seconds of silence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_B-5zQxD8
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 12th October 2023, 7:00 PM...looked it up and from what I've read pauses for audience reactions are a component because the reactions require pauses and influence the flow of the material.
Different sort of beat.
You're talking about the kind of (beat) that goes in brackets to indicate a pause in dialogue - or possibly when a director might ask an actor to pause for a 'beat' before delivering a line.
It all adds to the confusion, I'm afraid.
And that's why I said it's a load of bollocks. The technical data zealots who complicate the craft can't even find a different word for it. Story telling in script form has a long established set of pros & cons to follow.
This beat nonsense, both types, is American micro management BS that tbh only unbroadcasted amateurs take notice of, and none of it ever comes into play until production stage. It's like driving a Ferarri in central London, showing off while being passed by pedestrians.
F**k sake, that delete button right under the edit gets me every time. I haven't got time to rewrite my post now, I'll do it later.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 13th October 2023, 1:47 AMAnd that's why I said it's a load of bollocks. The technical data zealots who complicate the craft can't even find a different word for it. Story telling in script form has a long established set of pros & cons to follow.
This beat nonsense, both types, is American micro management BS that tbh only unbroadcasted amateurs take notice of, and none of it ever comes into play until production stage. It's like driving a Ferarri in central London, showing off while being passed by pedestrians.
Well, you're wrong.
And you'll have to take my word for it.
it's a common language used by people who write and commission - and it's used way before production stage
You can either pigheadedly rail against it or buy a book and learn it.
I recommend Into the Woods by John Yorke.
You'll be surprised how much you agree with - and how much you learn.
Your writing will be better.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 13th October 2023, 1:47 AMAnd that's why I said it's a load of bollocks. The technical data zealots who complicate the craft can't even find a different word for it. Story telling in script form has a long established set of pros & cons to follow.
This beat nonsense, both types, is American micro management BS that tbh only unbroadcasted amateurs take notice of, and none of it ever comes into play until production stage. It's like driving a Ferarri in central London, showing off while being passed by pedestrians.
Speaking as an actor, the pause beat is just accepted practice. It's not a gimmick, it's a useful direction.
You say story telling in script form has a long established set of pros and cons to follow but protest one of those pros and cons. Story structure is key to how an audience/reader/listener accept and understand your work. Beats are just part of that. I second what Lazzard says about John Yorke, I attended a really good webinar with him a few days ago where he was using adverts to highlight story structure.
I don't know where you get the idea from that it's only something amateurs do either. You can find beat sheets for successful shows if you google them. There's possibly even some on here.
Quote: Hildegard @ 12th October 2023, 10:02 AMThe question wouldn't have changed, and the point of the whole course is to create a portfolio to take to producers; the final major project particularly so. Writing scripts isn't the academic part, we do essays and reports for that.
It's been the word 'beats' that's thrown me. If it was described as main plot points that drive the story I'd be fine. And if you're not pinning THOSE down in any script you write, whether it's reached production or not, I don't think it's a script that will be going anywhere.
The sarcasm and snark on these forums is off putting. I use them as a last resort now, which is a shame.
Strange. From what I remember of my days providing computer support to TV production companies a Beat was a pause in the script where no-one says anything & the actors just look at each other. i.e used to emphasize the preceding sentence.
American usage may differ.
Quote: billwill @ 13th October 2023, 12:07 PMStrange. From what I remember of my days providing computer support to TV production companies a Beat was a pause in the script where no-one says anything & the actors just look at each other. i.e used to emphasize the preceding sentence.
American usage may differ.
Yeah, a stage direction 
We've established there's two different kinds of beats. I was asking about the one that gets applied to script writing structure.
Quote: Hildegard @ 13th October 2023, 12:09 PMYeah, a stage direction
We've established there's two different kinds of beats. I was asking about the one that gets applied to script writing structure.
Well it seems that back in the 90's (which was probably the heydays of sitcoms) the industry managed quite well without ever using the word Beat in that way.
.