I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,679

Quote: Lazzard @ 12th October 2023, 6:12 PM

OK. I'll bite.
There is a certain amount of deference shown to wealth and 'standing'.
Custodial sentences are regularly handed out for benefit fraud.
Even Lester Piggott got time.
I think super-rich crooks deserve the same level of 'justice' as super-poor ones.
I'm hoping when some of these Covid fraudsters are rounded up, they won't get away so lightly.

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Yes but to be fair to Bernie , we're only talking about a paltry HALF A BILLION POUNDS in this case

Anyway benefit fraudsters can rest easy now - even rapists are being spared jail now the prisons are officially FULL

" Defendants convicted of some of the most serious crimes including rape and burglary will reportedly face delays in going to prison from next week because jails are full.

Crown Court sentencing hearings are set to be delayed to keep down prison populations, leaving anyone on bail either free in the community or held in cells in magistrates' courts."

Quote: Lazzard @ 12th October 2023, 6:12 PM

OK. I'll bite.
There is a certain amount of deference shown to wealth and 'standing'.
Custodial sentences are regularly handed out for benefit fraud.
Even Lester Piggott got time.
I think super-rich crooks deserve the same level of 'justice' as super-poor ones.
I'm hoping when some of these Covid fraudsters are rounded up, they won't get away so lightly.

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I agree with all you've said (especially the bit about Lester Piggott). But that doesn't remotely answer either of my questions, viz:

Who are you accusing of "looking after their own" - the legislature, the executive, or the judiciary? And

How is Bernie Eccleston one of the judiciary?

I ask not because I want to defend Bernie Eccleston. Or the judges that handed out the sentence. I ask with regard to the separation of powers, which you seem to be challenging and which is so important within the {unwritten} British constitution.

It sounds very much to me like you're promoting one of those conspiracy theories that you're normally so fond of dismissing.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 12th October 2023, 6:37 PM

I agree with all you've said (especially the bit about Lester Piggott). But that doesn't remotely answer either of my questions, viz:

Who are you accusing of "looking after their own - the legislature, the executive, or the judiciary? And

How is Bernie Eccleston one of the judiciary?

I ask not because I want to defend Bernie Eccleston. Or the judges that handed out the sentence. I ask with regard to the separation of powers, which you seem to be challenging and which is so important within the {unwritten} British constitution.

It sounds very much to me like you're promoting one of those conspiracy theories that you're normally so fond of dismissing.

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Quote: lofthouse @ 12th October 2023, 6:02 PM

The mega rich with friends in the right places and access to the best legal assistance get treated one way - those people who don't matter, get treated a very different way

Two tier justice

One system for the rich - one for everyone else

Not rocket science 🚀

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The ultra wealthy and powerful look after their own

What's not to get ffs?

This is becoming like one of those interviews with a politician in which the interviewer asks a question numerous times and the politician fails to answer on every occasion.

I'll take it that it is a conspiracy theory then (ie with no evidence). Fair enough. As long as we recognise it for what it is.

Quote: lofthouse @ 12th October 2023, 6:49 PM

The ultra wealthy and powerful look after their own

What's not to get ffs?

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I would suggest that rich people tend to have contacts and insider knowledge plus what Kingdom would ignore £600,000,000,000 into their coffers as part of an 'Understanding; Meanwhile at the lower end, back in the day I can remember loads of dads and in a few cases mothers going to jail for not having a TV licence. They never f**king mentioned that while they were doling out the prizes on the Generation Game.

Good point well made Teddy.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 12th October 2023, 6:37 PM

.... I ask not because I want to defend Bernie Eccleston.

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Billy you said you worked for HMRC, who in my experience are pragmatic. I.e. why send someone to jail if keeping them out will get double (i.e. fines) back into government coffers ? Is that how it works ? My guess is Mr Piggott couldn't pay back - so the value there is to make an example of him ? To quote Tommy Cooper - "It's not the principle... it's the money that matters"

People like Eccleston - already absolutely f**king loaded , more money than they will ever be able to spend in a lifetime, but no, it's not enough. Greedy bastards still wanna cheat the system so they can line their already full pockets even more

Then there's some dude who lives in a shit hole on some council estate- cheats the system to get benefits they aren't entitled too

Both criminals - but I know who is worst

True, but wouldn't you want our government to get a billion pounds back from one of those two ? If they could - as I expect neither party would want to give anything back given the choise.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 12th October 2023, 6:59 PM

I'll take it that it is a conspiracy theory then (ie with no evidence). Fair enough. As long as we recognise it for what it is.

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If you've got to your ripe old age and not spotted that rich people get treated differently to poor people, then I'm not sure I can help you.

Quote: Firkin @ 12th October 2023, 9:13 PM

Billy you said you worked for HMRC, who in my experience are pragmatic. I.e. why send someone to jail if keeping them out will get double (i.e. fines) back into government coffers ? Is that how it works ? My guess is Mr Piggott couldn't pay back - so the value there is to make an example of him ? To quote Tommy Cooper - "It's not the principle... it's the money that matters"

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I did used to work for HMRC but only as a small cog in a vast, unwieldy and badly managed organisation. As far as I know (and can recall after eight years of retirement), criminal proceedings were normally only taken when the taxpayer (or, more precisely, the tax non-payer) continued to hide income even after he/she had been discovered and interviewed. If he/she came clean at that stage, they would usually just enforce payment of the sum owed along with the appropriate interest, fines and penalties. If criminal proceedings were warranted, they would still require payment of the sums due of course.

It is said that, in Lester Piggott's case, he had agreed the arrears, interest, fines and penalties to be paid but that he then paid by cheque drawn on a bank a/c that he hadn't declared.

SNP MP sick of the parties culture of bullying - defects to ... the Conservative party 👀

🤣🤣🤣

I'm sure she'll feel at home with Raab, Priti, Gavin Williamson, Imran Ahmad Khan, Mark Clarke, Alok Sharma etc etc

Quote: Lazzard @ 12th October 2023, 10:03 PM

If you've got to your ripe old age and not spotted that rich people get treated differently to poor people, then I'm not sure I can help you.

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Maybe; maybe not. But if that's not the very definition of a conspiracy theory, then I don't know what is.

And still no answer to my original questions I notice.

How ironic, you've not answered my original question either Mr Billy Bunter.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 12th October 2023, 12:25 PM

You are not being clear at all.
If you agree that nobody on the left is responsible how can this terrible case possibly be detrimental to the left?

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Because the NHS the Left never stop putting on a pedestal and praising to the hilt was partly responsible for the murders and even tried to cover it up. It can't possibly enhance the credibility of their constant sanctifiers if it's complicit in something as catastrophic as this. And this was after a series of non murder case baby deaths in the NHS where a lack of resources has been ruled out as a factor.

I think you go out of your way to be ultra literal and not understand what those who have different political views to you have said. I'm sure you'll find a way of not getting this.