Cigarette smoking is a fantastic example.
Huge amounts of money were spent trying to deny the science.
Big corporation with big money at stake.
Sound familiar?
I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,626
Of course experts get things wrong they're not infallible, everyone makes mistakes that's why they put a eraser on the other end of the pencil. But lets be honest for every blunder there have been amazing advances in society, health and a myriad of other areas.
Quote: Lazzard @ 25th July 2023, 4:59 PMHuge amounts of money were spent trying to deny the science.
Big corporation with big money at stake.
Sound familiar?
Yes, it's very similar to what is in play today. Buttttt, in addition to the fossil fuel interests, there are also powerful business and political interests which have an agenda of their own:
Companies that mine the minerals used for storage batteries and solar cells.
Companies that manufacture electric vehicles and solar cells.
"Green" energy suppliers.
And most importantly of all, there are politicians (as well as entire countries) who would like to redistribute the world's wealth and knock select Western economies off the top rung of the economic ladder.
It's a trillion-dollar effort, and money like that essentially ensures that there will be lies, cheating, and stealing at every step of the game.
I've no doubt there is a little of that.
But green technology and the green economy are in their infancy relative to the fossil-fuel industry.
There has been a concerted effort from them to debunk the science since the late-60's - strengthening in the 80's when the scientific consensus came together.
There are plenty of people who will make money out of 'going green', but their pockets are nothing like as deep as the fossil-fuel lobby.
Certainly not deep enough to pay-off most of populist newspapers and have entire TV channels espousing their philosophy.
The other telling fact is those (almost exclusively on the right) who are 'anti' never play the profiteering card when attacking 'eco warriors'.
It's always about 'control', about 'taking away our cars' or 'making us poorer/colder' or simply 'making a fuss about nothing'.
If there was even a hint of 'hidden' fiancial agendas they would have been all over it like a rash.
Quote: Lazzard @ 25th July 2023, 5:51 PMThere are plenty of people who will make money out of 'going green', but their pockets are nothing like as deep as the fossil-fuel lobby.Certainly not deep enough to pay-off most of populist newspapers and have entire TV channels espousing their philosophy.
No payoffs are necessary. As intended, the population has been divided into two teams, and everyone has fallen into line to support their favorite team without question.
Quote: Lazzard @ 25th July 2023, 5:51 PMIf there was even a hint of 'hidden' fiancial agendas they would have been all over it like a rash.
One of the major complaints has always been that "developing" countries like China and India (the world's largest and third-largest CO2 producers) have been given an advantage over Western nations. Every time I see a "green" celebrity taking a private jet, or hear about a climate alarmist like Al Gore using 20x the national average of electricity, I think, "I'll believe it's a crisis when they start acting like it's a crisis."
Had Obama built a small residence on top of a mountain - instead of a $12 million waterfront mansion - his warnings about rising sea levels might have resonated a bit more.
Quote: DaButt @ 25th July 2023, 6:08 PMNo payoffs are necessary. As intended, the population has been divided into two teams, and everyone has fallen into line to support their favorite team without question.
One of the major complaints has always been that "developing" countries like China and India (the world's largest and third-largest CO2 producers) have been given an advantage over Western nations. Every time I see a "green" celebrity taking a private jet, or hear about a climate alarmist like Al Gore using 20x the national average of electricity, I think, "I'll believe it's a crisis when they start acting like it's a crisis."
Had Obama built a small residence on top of a mountain - instead of a $12 million waterfront mansion - his warnings about rising sea levels might have resonated a bit more.
If there's a crisis, there's a crisis. It's not really worth getting hung up on things like that.
You talk as if there isn't abundant evidence evidence sea levels are rising already. It's already happening.
"I'll believe it's a crisis when they start acting like it's a crisis."
If there's a crisis, there's a crisis. It's not really worth getting hung up on things like that.
crisis
/ˈkrʌɪsɪs/
noun
a time of intense difficulty or danger.
It's the adding of that word that gets peoples back up. Global warming - fine. It is not a crisis yet. It is purposely added to panic and frighten people (and does)
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 26th July 2023, 7:37 AMIt's the adding of that word that gets peoples back up. Global warming - fine. It is not a crisis yet. It is purposely added to panic and frighten people (and does)
I think the recent record temperatures experienced in southern Europe, North America and China justify the use of the word, "crisis".
Of course you would. There's nothing else in the news but fires and record temperatures. You'd think it had never been hot before.
I have always accepted that it's getting warmer - the earth and mother nature has cooled and warmed for millions of years.
There is more to it than fossil fuels being burned.
I am happy that there are alternatives to fossil fuels. I come from west Yorkshire where many towns are black from the burning of them.
Not just power stations but the thousands of mills pumping out black smoke for a hundred years.
But your definition of a crisis vary from mine and the dictionary.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 26th July 2023, 9:23 AMOf course you would. There's nothing else in the news but fires and record temperatures. You'd think it had never been hot before.
I have always accepted that it's getting warmer - the earth and mother nature has cooled and warmed for millions of years.
There is more to it than fossil fuels being burned.
I am happy that there are alternatives to fossil fuels. I come from west Yorkshire where many towns are black from the burning of them.
Not just power stations but the thousands of mills pumping out black smoke for a hundred years.
But your definition of a crisis vary from mine and the dictionary.
What would it take to convince you? What would need to happen for you to feel we were in crisis?
I've said what I think. I'm not going into speculation of what it would take.
I see hot days and cold days and everything I have always seen.
I've seen the tar melting on the roads and my rainwater barrel frozen to the bottom for a month.
But crisis's I have not seen.
Crises?
It's a fair question. How do we know if we are in a crisis unless we know what a crisis is?
According to the dictionary definition of a crisis which you yourself provided many people are undoubtedly experiencing an intense period of danger and difficulty. Is it only a crisis when it's happening to us?
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 26th July 2023, 7:37 AMIt is not a crisis yet.
A grand piano falling on your head isn't a crisis till it actually hits you.
So let's keep pushing Steinways out of windows.
Breathtaking short-sightedness.
If you are taking the piss from a word I wrote - it's end of chat.
Not taking the piss.
Pointing out the fallacy in your argument.