Quote: Chappers @ 17th May 2023, 6:23 AMThat's because it's been sabotaged all the way by people who can't accept democracy.
Brexit's gone the way the Economists predicted. Even the tail backs at Dover were predicted by the Transport Union , the "saboteurs" were the ones with no plan to avoid the queues and no idea how to delivery their promised Land of milk and honey, e.g. Boris and Farage.
It's the biggest, needles act of self harm this country has ever indulged itself in
But hey, who knows, when us lot are all dead and gone there may actually be some benefits
Eventually
The deputy pm excelled himself in PMQ today
He brought up Corbyn in his very first comment to the opposition questions
Oh and some drivel about Phil and Holly
Like Sunak he didn't actually answer any of the questions
So yeah same shit different day
Quote: chipolata @ 17th May 2023, 10:25 AMTo echo Lazard's point, who is to blame then? My answer would be the Brexiteers because they proposed leaving without ever coming up with a workable plan as to how to make it work. Or even any plan.
I've already answered that one. Although I would use the expression "responsible for" rather than "to blame". It is the Great British public. The same public that voted to call a polar research ship "Boatymcboat face".
If you're looking for someone else to "blame", clearly it is not the Conservative Party, whose leader campaigned to remain. You could argue the Labour Party, whose leader declined to make his position known.
You could, I suppose, "blame" those who campaigned to leave but that would be being rather disingenuous to the electorate as you would be suggesting that they were unable to understand the issues even though they are trusted to do so at every General and local election when the same questions of what and what not to believe in a manifesto invariably arise. Or maybe there should have been a minimum IQ level for casting a vote?
Personally I would put the responsibility on Barack Obama for alienating the Great British public by trying to influence the vote when it was none of his business or Eddie Izzard for his clownish performance in support of remain on Question Time the week before the referendum.
Quote: lofthouse @ 17th May 2023, 11:44 AMIt's the biggest, needles act of self harm this country has ever indulged itself in
But hey, who knows, when us lot are all dead and gone there may actually be some benefits
Eventually
Taking your comment in the sarcastic way in which it is obviously meant, that is the same as saying that all the environmental targets and plans to tackle "climate change" should be abandoned because they are not of immediate benefit and will only help future generations.
Climate change DOES need addressing
We DIDNT need to remove ourselves from the EU
Of course no-one has answered the actual question I posed.
Which was, how have those who weren't happy with result 'sabotaged' Brexit?
It's an oft repeated trope that people happily parrot, without - it appears - any foundation in fact..
Is it because we were Remoaners ? But now we're just moaners, that's less moaning surly ? The Brexiteers main plan remains projecting blame onto the people (and companies) worst effected. Very Machiavellian and exploitative.
Quote: lofthouse @ 17th May 2023, 1:44 PMWe DIDNT need to remove ourselves from the EU
Clearly we did. Because, having been given a referendum in which to make the decision, that is what the Great British public, in their infinite wisdom, decided that that is what they wanted.
And you, yourself, have conceded that:
Quote: lofthouse @ 17th May 2023, 11:44 AMwhen us lot are all dead and gone there may actually be some benefits
Eventually
It would be incredibly selfish to deny future generations those potential benefits merely because there is no immediate benefit to us.
Vauxhall bosses claiming all of their UK factories may have to shut due to cost implications of the brexit trade deal
The electric car revolution is something else we may have to kiss goodbye to
Quote: Lazzard @ 17th May 2023, 2:09 PMOf course no-one has answered the actual question I posed.
Which was, how have those who weren't happy with result 'sabotaged' Brexit?
It's an oft repeated trope that people happily parrot, without - it appears - any foundation in fact..
So we can all agree that the statement was absolute bollocks?
It's not Remainers fault.
Excellent.
It hasn't worked because it was badly thought out.
A flawed plan, poorly executed
Hopefully we'll be able to repair the worst of it over the coming years.
But it always was a busted flush.
Quote: lofthouse @ 17th May 2023, 2:53 PMThe electric car revolution is something else we may have to kiss goodbye to
That may be a good thing. Imagine this scenario:
It's 2050, and most of our conveyances, including our military vehicles, are battery-powered. China finally feels strong enough to confront most of the world, so they cut off access to the supply of lithium (along with other vital rare earth metals), and we're unable to manufacture enough batteries to fill the demand. Checkmate.
Quote: lofthouse @ 17th May 2023, 2:53 PMThe electric car revolution is something else we may have to kiss goodbye to
Well that's clearly one of the future benefits of which you spoke earlier.
I said, a few years back when it was first mooted to be all electric by 2050, it/they was/were living in a fool's paradise. Sadly, it is unlikely I will see if me or the "experts" were right, as I'll be riding around in horse driven chariot across the universe - got to have summat to look forward to. 😎
Quote: DaButt @ 17th May 2023, 3:12 PMThat may be a good thing. Imagine this scenario:
It's 2050, and most of our conveyances, including our military vehicles, are battery-powered. China finally feels strong enough to confront most of the world, so they cut off access to the supply of lithium (along with other vital rare earth metals), and we're unable to manufacture enough batteries to fill the demand. Checkmate.
China will have crushed us all way before 2050.
It's getting the stuff out of the ground that's tricky.
There's plenty to go round - but we need new tech & investment to get it out.
That and alternatives to Lithium.
It'll happen, but it's certainly a brake on progress.
The thing is, China is way ahead on renewables.
We should have been on top of it by now - but too many vested interests have been stifling progress.