Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 13th February 2022, 7:40 PMOften what some describe as a 'Pack' normally transpires to be nothing more than a general consensus, which they are unable to compute.
This is very true, Teddy...though I appreciate agreeing with you is undermining your point.
Would it help if I called you a dirty Scouse bastard?
Just accuse him of supporting Liverpool FC 
I hate going off topic but you two are a pair of Rat Bastards.
Quote: gappy @ 13th February 2022, 7:31 PMI promise I have nothing against you personally (though your "abomination" statement didn't set me jumping for joy) I just think that your arguments are flawed and poorly expressed.
But, I do appreciate the response above, though I'm afraid I still don't find your logic entirely convincing.
Firstly, the Critique section of this message board, whee amateurs toss around new ideas is not really a barometer of British comedy, so we'll ignore that.
It's interesting that you note that comedians were once as famous as pop stars. Funny thing is, pop stars now aren't as famous as pop stars were - Kanye West and Billy Eilish are a fraction as influential as Madonna, Prince or Freddie Mercury once were (excuse the abomination-adjacent references). I think all you're describing is the fragmentation of culture and the end of the shared reference (I actually think that this makes comedy harder to write, but I think the effect is incidental).
Touching on knighthoods, I'm not sure it's hugely relevant. Firstly, it's not my litmus test for importance, but also Lenny Henry got his in 2015, 30 years since he was famous. Tony Robinson around the same time. We'd need to wait until at least 2030 to find an equivalency in the cases of Stewart Lee or Bob Mortimer.
But more significantly, I feel you're naive to think that comedians in the past were free to say precisely what they wanted. Ignoring the fact that swearing and explicit sexual references are now OKand were once stringently controlled - compare a Connelly routine from the 70s and the 00s for proof - but also religion and other morally sensitive areas were once off-limits, at least where things were recorded...in some ways, the real change in today's world,regarding sensitivity and censorship, is that everything is recorded, or at least we act as if it might be. Different things are taboo now, but this is not proof that taboo is a new thing.
Your final challenge is interesting. Of course, in countries where free speech is significantly curtailed, we inevitably get very little culture filtering through. But, more importantly, I can't really name you any comedians from foreign non-Anglophone nations without oppressive regimes, because of the nature of the art. Don't ask me my favourite Belgian comedian, for example. So, I guess this won't help us solve this issue.
As it happens, I'm no cheerleader for lots of things in our current society, but I still don't believe they are generally the reason why you don't like comedies now as much asBlackadder.
"Abomination statement", oh gappy, I haven't even started yet.
Pet dislikes:
Loud rap music,
Those 'turkish' style haircuts, bald half-way up the head with a clump left on top.
Intimidating 'Plastic gangster' white youths shouting 'YO innit' as though they came from Jamaica. (I wish I was 40 years younger you scumbags)!
Dope smokers.
Forum trolls. (Now there's one that many here will identify with).
There's more, but you get the gist.
Pet hates:
Am I allowed to say this? Celery! God, I HATE the stuff. If a stick of celery was human I'd kill it!
It's strange you should say I've nothing against you personally, because I seem to be the favourite topic here. No doubt because the attempt at comedy here is so awful there really isn't anything else to focus on.
I'm well aware the critque section is not a professional one, but it is a showcase. Could I do any better? No, not with censorship.
Yes, you're right to say that pop-stars aren't a patch on what they were. Why would that be? Culture? As culture changes it produces consequences and today's popular 'rap' is the outcome of that. A mindless noise with a heavy tribal beat. Not pleasant on the ears, but perfectly diverse and multicultural. Ticks all the right boxes.
You give me two names I assume are today's comedians, Stewart Lee and Mortimer. I'm sorry, I've never heard of them. Have you heard of Les Dawson or Bernard Manning or Ken Dodd? That's the difference.
I think you're wrong to say comedy was previously censored. Python's 'The Life of Brian' was hugely criticized, but never banned. Swear words were often not heard, but that's because the comedy was so good they weren't needed. If a comedy script needs to include swear words I assume the content is so poor it needs the shock effect.
Actually, my challenge to find a comedian from a censored society was a loaded question and that's because eventually speech control destroys comedy and that's why you don't see any. Think back to The Life of Brian, based around skits of Christ. Imagine doing that today about Allah?! Ken Dodd, stopping just short of being sexually explicit. Manning and his women jokes targetting the audience ... They wouldn't last two minutes today. If they were the great comedians, it's why we now have a politically correct watered down version of blandness.
Haha! Sorry Paddy, I couldn't resist it.
For the record, Paddy is one of the funniest writers I know. He's been on the point of breaking through many times, and as many times let down by producers and broadcasters. I've read several of his scripts, and they're really good. I'm sure he'll be successful eventually.
Love from a rat bastard
p.s. I love celery.
Quote: Rupert Bear @ 13th February 2022, 8:18 PM"Abomination statement", oh gappy, I haven't even started yet.
Pet dislikes:
Loud rap music,
Those 'turkish' style haircuts, bald half-way up the head with a clump left on top.
Intimidating 'Plastic gangster' white youths shouting 'YO innit' as though they came from Jamaica. (I wish I was 40 years younger you scumbags)!
Dope smokers.
Forum trolls. (Now there's one that many here will identify with).
There's more, but you get the gist.Pet hates:
Am I allowed to say this? Celery! God, I HATE the stuff. If a stick of celery was human I'd kill it!It's strange you should say I've nothing against you personally, because I seem to be the favourite topic here. No doubt because the attempt at comedy here is so awful there really isn't anything else to focus on.
I'm well aware the critque section is not a professional one, but it is a showcase. Could I do any better? No, not with censorship.
Yes, you're right to say that pop-stars aren't a patch on what they were. Why would that be? Culture? As culture changes it produces consequences and today's popular 'rap' is the outcome of that. A mindless noise with a heavy tribal beat. Not pleasant on the ears, but perfectly diverse and multicultural. Ticks all the right boxes.
You give me two names I assume are today's comedians, Stewart Lee and Mortimer. I'm sorry, I've never heard of them. Have you heard of Les Dawson or Bernard Manning or Ken Dodd? That's the difference.
I think you're wrong to say comedy was previously censored. Python's 'The Life of Brian' was hugely criticized, but never banned. Swear words were often not heard, but that's because the comedy was so good they weren't needed. If a comedy script needs to include swear words I assume the content is so poor it needs the shock effect.
Actually, my challenge to find a comedian from a censored society was a loaded question and that's because eventually speech control destroys comedy and that's why you don't see any. Think back to The Life of Brian, based around skits of Christ. Imagine doing that today about Allah?! Ken Dodd, stopping just short of being sexually explicit. Manning and his women jokes targetting the audience ... They wouldn't last two minutes today. If they were the great comedians, it's why we now have a politically correct watered down version of blandness.
What modern comedies or comedians have you watched? Not a loaded question, just interested.
There's a lot to unpack there, Rupert. My main response is that your primary argument is that because of woke censorship comedians can't be famous, and you've proved that by showing you've not heard of famous comedians. In a way, it's an amazing argument, but it will never convince anyone.
Life of Brian was not banned, but there were debates about it on Tv and in the print media, it had an X cert in
many places on release, and wasn't televised until the 90s. This is censorship - not a fun sexy version, but it is all the same. Society needs some level of censorship, I think, so I don't think it's terrible that the film was considered too spicy for minors at the time.
Incidentally, I love hip hop, but I don't think anything in the mainstream has been good for twenty years. Possibly like you and your opinion of contemporary comedy (of which you've not heard). This is just the sort of thing people interested in art do, make decisions about trends in a non-knee jerk reaction. The Victorians wrote brilliant novels, and were shit at writing drama - I know this from reading, but I don't relate it directly to the Raj, because that would be silly.
Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 13th February 2022, 7:40 PMOften what some describe as a 'Pack' normally transpires to be nothing more than a general consensus, which they are unable to compute. I think that your initial post is fraught with inaccuracies and shows scant understanding of the subject. This is my honest opinion and its part of my independent thought process and is not in conjunction or collusion with other parties.
Focus on discussing comedy and not me or your political agenda. It helps.
PS rap is not PC, or Marxist. I assure you that hip hop culture is generally not impacted by the fear of offence, so I don't know whether bringing it up helps your argument.
I'll let you off Beaky as you are a wag and I do love a wag. On the subject of LFC we had a young cousin who wanted to be one of their fans and he also made funny noises if left alone. Put together that was enough to have him carted off. I often wonder what happened to him, some say he escaped and went to live in Kula Lumpur . This made sense as he was also a massive fan of Windsor Davis.
The Life of Brian wasn't skits of Jesus. It was making fun of the people around him. Pressure groups (PFJ), Latin spelling, intolerant holy people, etc. Jesus was only seen once from afar and never mocked.
Sasha Baron Cohen is pretty big. Several major films that make fun of many things.
Quote: Rupert Bear @ 13th February 2022, 8:40 PMFocus on discussing comedy and not me or your political agenda. It helps.
Mate, your whole point is that the political agenda is ruining comedy and invited us to "discuss". What did you want from us, just lots of people saying "yes, correct, no further comment"?
You know what they say about wags, Teddy? The closest thing to a dog's arse.
What a lively thread this is!
and the dogs bollocks
Haha!