I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,324

Quote: chipolata @ 4th October 2021, 1:45 PM

I'm guessing you're largely basing this on some of the Tories Covid policies, namely furlough and the recent tax hikes announced. How do you think a true centre-right party should have dealt with Covid?

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That, as a wise man once said, is an ecumenical matter...

I'm not quite sure how my pointing out that the current governing party has a centre-left position led to me being asked to come up with some hypothetical policy for some hypothetical centre-right party. It would be for that centre-right party, if there were such an animal, to come up with their policies for themselves. But most certainly the current Conservative Party is not that party.

As you rightly suggest yourself, there is all the money that the treasury has given away over the past 18 months and the recently imposed tax rises. In addition there is the ongoing unnecessary excessive public expenditure (eg HS2), their pledge to mobilise £12 billion to achieve carbon-neutrality by 2050, the breakdown in law and order but their disinclination to do anything about it and their continued support for those who are overseeing it.

None of these are the policies of a true Conservative government.

Did you not wonder at the lack of opposition to Tory policies by the Labour Party? That is because there is no difference between the two parties. Why do you think so many Labour supporters were comfortable with voting Conservative at the last election?

And then there is their leader's un-conservative attitude to the sanctity of marriage and family life and his support for centre-left causes in general.

Back in 2003, when MP for Henley, Johnson was one of a few Conservative MPs who rebelled against Conservative Party policy and voted with Labour for an end to the Thatcherite ban on teaching about homosexuality in state schools. As London mayor, he marched in several Pride parades and, as foreign secretary, he reversed a ban on rainbow flags at British embassies.

In 2010, as Mayor of London, Johnson told PinkNews that he supported gay marriage and was hoping to be mayor again for Worldpride in 2012 when it was to be held in London. Peter Tatchell said at the time, " I'm very pleased. He said 'why not?' I'm sure his support will add to the pressure to marriage equality." And, more recently, Chief Whip, Mark Spencer, said that Christian teachers who said they were opposed to same-sex marriage should be subject to 'Extremism Disruption Orders', which were introduced by David Cameron and Theresa May (as Home Secretary) specifically to tackle radicalisation by jihadists.

I proffer no opinions as to whether any of these attitudes and actions are a good thing or a bad thing. Merely to point out that they are most certainly not the actions of a right wing politician or a right wing party.

And my point is that, in order to have a robust and functioning democracy, the electorate of this country needs to be given a choice. Not to have the two, three or even four main parties all with the same ideals.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 4th October 2021, 9:45 PM

That, as a wise man once said, is an ecumenical matter...

I'm not quite sure how my pointing out that the current governing party has a centre-left position led to me being asked to come up with some hypothetical policy for some hypothetical centre-right party. It would be for that centre-right party, if there were such an animal, to come up with their policies for themselves. But most certainly the current Conservative Party is not that party.

As you rightly suggest yourself, there is all the money that the treasury has given away over the past 18 months and the recently imposed tax rises. In addition there is the ongoing unnecessary excessive public expenditure (eg HS2), their pledge to mobilise £12 billion to achieve carbon-neutrality by 2050, the breakdown in law and order but their disinclination to do anything about it and their continued support for those who are overseeing it.

None of these are the policies of a true Conservative government.

Did you not wonder at the lack of opposition to Tory policies by the Labour Party? That is because there is no difference between the two parties. Why do you think so many Labour supporters were comfortable with voting Conservative at the last election?

And then there is their leader's un-conservative attitude to the sanctity of marriage and family life and his support for centre-left causes in general.

Back in 2003, when MP for Henley, Johnson was one of a few Conservative MPs who rebelled against Conservative Party policy and voted with Labour for an end to the Thatcherite ban on teaching about homosexuality in state schools. As London mayor, he marched in several Pride parades and, as foreign secretary, he reversed a ban on rainbow flags at British embassies.

In 2010, as Mayor of London, Johnson told PinkNews that he supported gay marriage and was hoping to be mayor again for Worldpride in 2012 when it was to be held in London. Peter Tatchell said at the time, " I'm very pleased. He said 'why not?' I'm sure his support will add to the pressure to marriage equality." And, more recently, Chief Whip, Mark Spencer, said that Christian teachers who said they were opposed to same-sex marriage should be subject to 'Extremism Disruption Orders', which were introduced by David Cameron and Theresa May (as Home Secretary) specifically to tackle radicalisation by jihadists.

I proffer no opinions as to whether any of these attitudes and actions are a good thing or a bad thing. Merely to point out that they are most certainly not the actions of a right wing politician or a right wing party.

And my point is that, in order to have a robust and functioning democracy, the electorate of this country needs to be given a choice. Not to have the two, three or even four main parties all with the same ideals.

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Thank you for answering my question. I'd agree on some things. Furlough and the tax and spend recently announced, and refusal to rule out any more tax hikes doesn't appear very Conservative. In a similar vein, the Tory party has always been the party of business, and it's support of Brexit did see it essentially supporting an anti-business policy. And yes, Boris Johnson is possibly the most morally flexible PM we have ever had and not a good advert for any values, Conservative or otherwise.

I'm not sure I agree on the supporting of gay marriage being something at odds with Conservative values. Conservatives believe in small government and the state not interfering in peoples private lives, so I would think a true Conservative would happily support gay marriage and see it as none of the states business what individuals get up to. Likewise most should oppose Thatcher's Section 28 because it was the government interfering in matters that were none of their business. And morally wrong, obviously.

Cor blimey, even the Daily Mail has turned on Boris ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10060043/Boris-denies-claims-supply-chain-chaos-just-ending-UKs-low-wage-economy.html

Quote: Firkin @ 5th October 2021, 8:18 PM

Cor blimey, even the Daily Mail has turned on Boris ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10060043/Boris-denies-claims-supply-chain-chaos-just-ending-UKs-low-wage-economy.html

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That's because they don't tend to support left of centre politicians or their parties

He'll bounce back. He just needs to get into a fight with Johnny Foreigner about something. Or stir up a bit of culture war nonsense and get the great unwashed riled about something else the evil woke tyrants are up to.

He's already Gaslighting his way out of the problem.
Apparently it's business's fault for not being prepared for all the things Brexiteers said weren't going to happen.

Can't help feeling the papers have missed a trick here. Where's the headline "Crisis? What crisis?"

What people dont seem to realise is that there is party without a name which is responsible for most of the trouble Britain finds itself in. Between the left of the Conservative and right of the Labour party is a blurred middle ground inhabited by the likes of Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Mandelson, Johnson, Osbourne and Campbell, et al. These people have no real allegiance to any party, are insufferably vapid, and have no firm views on any subject. All of the above avoid the great unwashed as if they are a plague, yet lick the behinds of dubious billionaires whilst stuffing their own bank accounts and preaching their own pious humanity.
And doesn't their insufferable fake "love and pride" of the NHS make you sick?

Good post, Paulted. The accepted wisdom is that whoever controls the central ground wins elections. More polarisation would make who to vote for a lot easier.

So now that Sussex University's Trans Society have nuked France for insisting on le, la, un and une, isn't it high time they gave English an award for having gender non-specific nouns, eg the trousers?

Quote: paulted @ 6th October 2021, 6:51 PM

What people dont seem to realise is that there is party without a name which is responsible for most of the trouble Britain finds itself in. Between the left of the Conservative and right of the Labour party is a blurred middle ground inhabited by the likes of Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Mandelson, Johnson, Osbourne and Campbell, et al. These people have no real allegiance to any party, are insufferably vapid, and have no firm views on any subject. All of the above avoid the great unwashed as if they are a plague, yet lick the behinds of dubious billionaires whilst stuffing their own bank accounts and preaching their own pious humanity.
And doesn't their insufferable fake "love and pride" of the NHS make you sick?

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But if they are truly central, why are they are only pretending to support the NHS? This undercover hatred of immigrants also doesn't seem very central.

Our economy must be booming, the Tory's are requesting a 22% pay rise.

I envy the Tories. Judging by the party conference and Boris's speach, the alternative reality they live in is way better than the shiit one the rest of us inhabit.

Quote: chipolata @ 9th October 2021, 7:54 AM

I envy the Tories. Judging by the party conference and Boris's speach, the alternative reality they live in is way better than the shiit one the rest of us inhabit.

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They are probably just grateful that we don't have John McDonnell in charge of the economy, Diane Abbott in charge of law & order and Piers Corbyn's brother in charge of the vaccination programme.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 9th October 2021, 8:36 AM

John McDonnell in charge of the economy...

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He initially trained as a Catholic Priest so he knows how to collect money from the masses. Boris studied classical antiquity, could be why he's wanted to wind back the clock with Brexit and Imperialism. Also why he doesn't understand modern things like economics, transport infrastructure and covid apps. At lease McDonnell and Boris can both speak Latin that's something, isn't it ?