Recommended books on writing sitcoms, etc Page 3

Quote: Seefacts @ March 18, 2008, 9:02 PM

In terms of comedy - at first I emulated my idols - and copied the script layout I got from the Father Ted script book. Grant & Naylor, Linehan & Mathews, John Swartzwelder - I thought about what they did that I liked and did my own versions of it. Learning my craft, analysing how their programs worked. As I progressed, my own style appeared. I look at my work now and can see influences (the ones I mentioned are my main ones, depending on what I'm writing) but I also see a style that I haven't seen anywhere else, and that's my own.

I'm not saying EVERYONE should do it that way, but I think copying your idols is how to start off. When it comes to being creative, you almost can't go wrong. You can't learn to write a funny line.

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That's probably the best way to go. It's what I've been doing for the last couple of months with sketch writing.

However, I did attend a one day sketch writing course and that did help to hammer home the basics.

Quote: Griff @ March 18, 2008, 9:44 PM

I'm learning to play the piano, and I think I play in a frenetic (non-classical) emulating people who I like, but I'll never be able to write a song like Ben Folds. I could read books all I liked, but I'd never be able to write something like 'Landed'.

Now playing the piano is something I know a bit about, as I have done the exams etc, worked as a restaurant jazz pianist, played keyboards in bands and done some musical directing.

If you read a few books on music, and understood things like jazz scales, chord progressions, rhythm and syncopation etc., (I don't mean to diss you here - maybe you do know all this) then you definitely would have a lot more tools and ideas which would help you come up with those groovy riffs than if you hadn't read those books.

I particularly recommend Contemporary Styles For The Jazz Pianist by John Mehegan, Judy Carmichael's Introduction To Stride Piano, Mitch Kerper's Jazz Riffs For Piano, Dr.John Teaches New Orleans Jazz Piano, and Jack Long's Blues For Piano.

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But scales etc are all learnable skills, there aren't scales for comedy.

I think music vs comedy is a bad analogy!

Quote: Griff @ March 18, 2008, 9:52 PM

I think music vs comedy is a bad analogy!

Probably it is. But you were naughtily using it as another example of why all that book-learnin' nonsense be pointless. I wanted to put the other point of view.

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I think with music there ARE set rules that you MUST follow, in comedy I don't think there are.

Anyway, I think we've both put our views across and I think this thread is still helpful even though we've gone a bit off topic.

There is one set rule: be funny!

Quote: Seefacts @ March 18, 2008, 8:20 PM

People think that these books are a substitute - they're not.

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Who said that? You seem to be arguing against something that isn't there. Good for you that you don't use books, you are not everyone else though.

Plenty of people do use these books and I know that John Cleese believed in courses and books too - and he didn't turn out too bad.

Quote: Seefacts @ March 18, 2008, 9:02 PM

I'm not saying EVERYONE should do it that way, but I think copying your idols is how to start off. When it comes to being creative, you almost can't go wrong. You can't learn to write a funny line.

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First of all you are telling EVERYONE to not use books and second of all there have been plenty of double acts etc that have proven one person can generate funny ideas but the other one can hone it in and construct it into a funnier line. The idea is the talent, you CAN learn how to construct it better.

Reading scripts and watching comedy is just another way of learning the craft. I agree its more important but you have slammed shut the door on books which I'm not sure you are in a position to do so. We're all different. The end.

Seefacts or Seeopinion? You know what, as far as I'm aware, all the books and courses out there say the best way to get better is to write. And re-write. Lots. There really isn't a conflict between getting advice (written or otherwise) and learning by writing. You appear to look down on those of us who think this type of advice is of use, and that's fair enough if it works for you. But at some point I'm sure people have given you good advice and you have taken it on board - otherwise you wouldn't have got as far as you have with the project you had good news about recently.

To continue the sporting analogies, Nick Faldo would've won close to bugger all if he hadn't sought the advice of David Leadbetter (incidentally, an expert who was no good at golf himself). Likewise, Tiger Woods owes a lot to his Butch.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ March 19, 2008, 12:13 AM

Who said that? You seem to be arguing against something that isn't there. Good for you that you don't use books, you are not everyone else though.

Plenty of people do use these books and I know that John Cleese believed in courses and books too - and he didn't turn out too bad.

First of all you are telling EVERYONE to not use books and second of all there have been plenty of double acts etc that have proven one person can generate funny ideas but the other one can hone it in and construct it into a funnier line. The idea is the talent, you CAN learn how to construct it better.

Reading scripts and watching comedy is just another way of learning the craft. I agree its more important but you have slammed shut the door on books which I'm not sure you are in a position to do so. We're all different. The end.

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I meant 'people' as a general term, no one specific.

I just think the whole thing is a false economy and a bit of a con. For my mind becoming a good writer shouldn't cost you a penny.

Except in stamps.

Quote: Badge @ March 19, 2008, 12:31 AM

Seefacts or Seeopinion? You know what, as far as I'm aware, all the books and courses out there say the best way to get better is to write. And re-write. Lots. There really isn't a conflict between getting advice (written or otherwise) and learning by writing. You appear to look down on those of us who think this type of advice is of use, and that's fair enough if it works for you. But at some point I'm sure people have given you good advice and you have taken it on board - otherwise you wouldn't have got as far as you have with the project you had good news about recently.

To continue the sporting analogies, Nick Faldo would've won close to bugger all if he hadn't sought the advice of David Leadbetter (incidentally, an expert who was no good at golf himself). Likewise, Tiger Woods owes a lot to his Butch.

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I think there's been some great advice on here, without a doubt. I don't think I could have learned anymore by reading a book.

I think all the learning material is there on the telly and on DVD for everyone to see. And I don't think I would have picked up anymore tips from reading a book on it.

Quote: Seefacts @ March 19, 2008, 9:53 AM

I meant 'people' as a general term, no one specific.

I just think the whole thing is a false economy and a bit of a con. For my mind becoming a good writer shouldn't cost you a penny.

Except in stamps.

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Well its a craft, different people develop it in different ways. And as I have said loads of times, people have benefited from courses and books before. It can't do any harm to get more advise.

Quote: Seefacts @ March 19, 2008, 9:53 AM

I think there's been some great advice on here, without a doubt. I don't think I could have learned anymore by reading a book.

I think all the learning material is there on the telly and on DVD for everyone to see. And I don't think I would have picked up anymore tips from reading a book on it.

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So you have never read a 'how to write...' book?

Quote: ContainsNuts @ March 19, 2008, 10:28 AM

Well its a craft, different people develop it in different ways. And as I have said loads of times, people have benefited from courses and books before. It can't do any harm to get more advise.

So you have never read a 'how to write...' book?

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No, never saw the point.

Quote: Seefacts @ March 19, 2008, 10:34 AM

No, never saw the point.

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Bloody hell Seefacts! Don't you know you shouldn't argue against something you know nothing about!

Quote: ContainsNuts @ March 19, 2008, 10:41 AM

Bloody hell Seefacts! Don't you know you shouldn't argue against something you know nothing about!

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Can't believe I fell for that!