Although having said that George in Seinfeld is not much of a winner.
Frasier Page 8
And of course every character in Cheers is also a loser. Veep too is about a loser. I'll get my thinking cap on as I suspect there are others.
Rosanne, Everyone Loves Raymond, 3rd Rock from the sun were all a bunch of losers. It's the British link more to do with self-deprecating ? In Cheers and Fraser they tease each other, but in Steptoe and son, OFAH etc..., they run themselves down.
I'm not sure, in Arrested Development and Community they're all losers who are vicious about each other. I'm not wholly convinced there are any major differences, since numerous American shows are about failures or people who sre inadequate in some way.
Well we need to be sure about this. American sitcoms such as 3rd Rock and Raymond, the characters are in denial. They don't full accept they're failures. In Friends, the denial is their incomes don't fit their lifestyles, they live like successful city professionals, but are unemployed or waitresses. SOAP , Arrested Development and so many more all fit the denial model.
Cheers is different, but it was also the first American sitcom the UK ever bought. We tend to discuss American sitcoms on here that are closer to British tastes. Sitcoms like Two and a Half Men have a very unrealistic story line, yet run for ever. Porridge, OFAH etc.. have far less denial and tend to be closer to reality. Could that be the difference ?
Quote: Firkin @ 26th February 2020, 11:13 AMWell we need to be sure about this. American sit comes such as 3rd Rock and Raymond, the characters are in denial. They don't full accept they're failures. In Friends, the denial is their incomes don't fit their lifestyles, they live like successful city professionals, but are unemployed or waitresses. SOAP , Arrested Development and so many more all fit the denial model.
Cheers is different, but it was also the first American sitcom the UK ever bought. We tend to discuss American sitcoms on here that are closer to British tastes. Sitcoms like Two and a Half Men have a very unrealistic story line, yet run for ever. Porridge, OFAH etc.. have far less denial and tend to be closer to reality. Could that be the difference ?
Closer but I'm still not sure! In The Office we have David Brent who is a failure but in denial. Ditto for Alan Partridge. Captain Mainwaring too. Ab Fab fits the denial argument too.
I guess one difference could be the levels of failure. There's a bleakness at the heart of a lot of British shows that the American shows don't generally have. For example, there's a level of patheticness to David Brent that isn't there in his American counterpart. And it's hard to imagine a character as creepy as Rigsby in an American show. In other words, we Brits really excel at being pathetic and creepy and bleak.
Quote: chipolata @ 26th February 2020, 11:54 AMI guess one difference could be the levels of failure.
That's it, right there. Ab Fab's denial is believable, but some American sitcoms just aren't. The American, tinsel town dream is too optimistic for reserved Brits. Hence Cheers and Rosanne lean in the British direction, and Friends doesn't ?
Quote: Firkin @ 26th February 2020, 3:35 PMThat's it, right there. Ab Fab's denial is believable, but some American sitcoms just aren't. The American, tinsel town dream is too optimistic for reserved Brits. Hence Cheers and Rosanne lean in the British direction, and Friends doesn't ?
I think I can broadly get behind this.
Although I think it's more true of the past. As we move away from network dominance towards streaming I think American shows will get less constrained and less afraid to alienate mainstream audiences. Conversely, I'm not sure we produce many shows now that plumb the depths of failure like our shows of yesteryear.
The reboot is now officially happening, only Kelsey Grammer is attached at this stage. Not sure how I feel about it. Frasier is in a very select group of perfect sitcoms whose quality never wavered. If they can get the writing talent to back this up then I am all for it, but without Martin and with Hyde Pierce, Leeves and Gilpen yet to sign on I remain sceptical:
Hmmm, yes agree with you. I can't see it working...............so well.
The rivalry between the brothers was the foundation of it's brilliance.And David Hyde Pierce was really excellent as Niles.I can't see it working without him not to mention the others.Daphne's family I wouldn't miss.
Has anyone else seen teh first two episodes of the new Frasier (with Old Frasier)
I didn't think it was too bad, but expect it to get criticized by most as it has a lot to live up to
Quote: Sitcomfan64 @ 24th February 2021, 11:48 PMFrasier is in a very select group of perfect sitcoms whose quality never wavered.
I have to disagree there, possibly not its fault, having to run for a decade or more to please American broadcasters, but it most certainly did get stale, as most US sitcoms do.
I thought it was great. Lots of laughs (Grammer and Cutmore-Scott played the hockey table scene in episode 2 to perfection) Grammer slips back into the role as though he's never been away, beautiful ending to the first episode. I can see Nicholas Lyndhurst's character being a highlight of the series.
I really enjoyed the first two episodes. Look forward to the rest of the season. Shame the British industry has given up.