I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,241

Quote: Chappers @ 15th December 2020, 9:41 PM

It was. We thought naively that we'd have at least an equal say about how it's run.

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What specific EU laws do you feel have had a negative affect on you personally?

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 15th December 2020, 11:58 PM

You mean greatly enhanced. Very greatly enhanced. As a sole trading nation again and a newly independent country we will have far greater pulling power, especially with the larger defence force that's been promised. And what laws we pass won't be able to be quashed by the meddling EU.

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Not convinced by this at all. Our reputation certainly hasn't been enhanced by the process of leaving.
We won't be independent after we leave anyway. We'll still be in NATO.

Quote: lofthouse @ 15th December 2020, 10:07 PM

One of the curious things about the Brussels EU is that in promoting itself to the world it continually tries to rewrite, or even erase, some of the most important facts about its history. While there are many examples of this, nowhere is it perhaps more apparent than in the image it tries to present of Walter Hallstein, the man who was the first president of the European Commission, the unelected executive body of Europe. Hallstein held this post between 1958 and 1967 and is described on the Brussels EU website as a "visionary leader" and a "diplomatic force" who propelled European integration. However, no mention whatsoever is given by the Brussels EU to the fact that before and during World War Two Hallstein was a member of official Nazi organizations

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This is misleading. It was pretty hard to get anywhere in Germany in the 1930s and 40s without being a Nazi. Though he was in some Nazi organisations, Hallstein never joined the Nazi Party and was opposed to Nazi ideology. The Nazis disliked him and seem to have opposed him being appointed to a number of key positions.
Kurt Waldheim's wartime role was more dubious. But he wasn't anything to do with the EU.
There's really not any similarity whatsoever between the EU and the Third Reich. As mentioned, the EU is not run by Germany anyway (Belgium was invaded by the Nazis, after all) and has a democratically elected parliament..
The key architects of the Treaty of Rome were motivated by a desire to prevent a repeat of the two devastating conflicts had occurred within 30 years.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 16th December 2020, 5:52 AM

Not convinced by this at all. Our reputation certainly hasn't been enhanced by the process of leaving.
We won't be independent after we leave anyway. We'll still be in NATO.

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I didn't say a thing about reputation, but that hasn't stopped three countries with large economies signing trade deals with us in the last few weeks - Japan, Singapore and Canada. Most leading Nations are far more pragmatic than some seem to think.

And do you think the EU's reputation has gone unblemished through all this? Political scientists have already attributed the rise of populism and nationalism to the perceived authoritarianism of the EU and the erosion of their own national identities.

And NATO will have no say on our independence to govern ourselves how we want just as it hasn't with the USA. As long as we do get a deal that gives us our independence back, or not getting a deal.

I know it's early but....anyone fancy a pint?

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 15th December 2020, 11:58 PM

You mean greatly enhanced. Very greatly enhanced.

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We'll certainly be busy, running around like blue-arsed flies trying to replace all the excellent deals we already have via the EU with slightly worse versions.

So you think in the event of a 'no deal' no goods will pass either way between Europe and the UK without massive tariffs.
That the whole of the EU will refuse to trade with the UK unless a percentage is added to the goods.

That my friend is suicide for thousands of European businesses and the probably the demise of the whole EU.
If Pedro from Seville can't sell his million oranges to us a 50p a pop as he has always done, do you think he'll want to stay in this wonderful Union that will dictate his prices.
And meanwhile, The UK gets a million oranges from Brazil or China or.....
The EU does not have a monopoly on goods. Everything they produce can easily be sourced elsewhere.

It is definitely a case of cutting their nose off to spite their face. They can't and won't do it and they know that.

It will be a cost to them, for sure - but not as much as it will us.
We export £294 billion to them.
They export £374 billion to us.
Tariffs would affect both sides of the equation
But there's 27 of them - so 1/27th of the pain for them (taken as individual countries - which, of course, they are despite federalist scaremongering)
They'd rather have a deal - but it'll hurt us more than them.
That's just maths.

Anyway - looks like we'll have a deal, as there seems to be a bit of movement on the level playing field.
Boris might have to throw the fisherman under the bus, but then successive governments haven't given a toss about the fishing industry in the past - just stirring it now to rile their base up.

I'm not an expert on this subject

But it seems to me like the U.K. is saying - we voted to leave so were out, were gone - finished Bye

Ummm..

But can we please still enjoy lots of the benefits of trading with the EU anyway??

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 16th December 2020, 11:18 AM

So you think in the event of a 'no deal' no goods will pass either way between Europe and the UK without massive tariffs.

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It's not just tariffs but delays at customs. If you road freighted to some EU countries you often go through 3 or more boarder checks, each way. That can double the time it takes as there will be longer delays over there than you see here. They won't staff up to help the competition, quite the opposite. Just in time delivery systems require very dependable delivery times. Add in much higher freight costs and times and you're no longer competitive.

Quote: Lazzard @ 15th December 2020, 11:13 PM

You've been watching too much Dad's Army, mate.
The civilised world's moved on - comedically and intellectually.
(Well, obviously some of us haven't)
The 'sore point' you refer to is the fact that when my kids were born, they could live, work and study anywhere in Europe.
Now, their shitty blue passport, foisted upon them by disgruntled old twats, is nigh on worthless .
Plans have been shelved, dreams put on hold - and for what?
At the very best a marginal decline in GDP (government figures) and a diminished role on the world's stage.
All so that the pub bores of England can totter round shouting "they don't like it up 'em!" & "two World Wars and One World Cup".
If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

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What is really sad (as I see it), is that the Remainers seem to believe that it is ONLY the UK membership of the EU that permits us to visit European Countries. It simply isn't the case unless the EU gets vindictive. I'm old enough to preceed UK membership of the EU and there was never a problem visiting European countries for holiday or for business activities before we joined the EU.

I and friends had diving holidays in the South of France and the Azores (part of Portugal) before EU, we even took a 30 cwt van all the way to both those locations.

The only thing extra that we required then was medical travel insurance and you had to plan a little bit in advance to get a visa; trivial extras compared to what remainers seem to believe.

Oh and when I was at college, (in London) we had numerous colleagues who were from European countries (AND the rest of the world) , studying in London.

Quote: billwill @ 16th December 2020, 12:57 PM

What is really sad (as I see it), is that the Remainers seem to believe that it is ONLY the UK membership of the EU that permits us to visit European Countries..

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Only the absolute thickest of Remainers.
I think most of us understand we can still go on holiday - that's never been an issue.
Working abroad is, though.
That right has been removed from us.
And the countless EU schemes, partnerships and programs for study and research will have to be re-built from the ground up.
At a cultural level there were many links - funded and run by the EU - that, for young people in particular, provided a lot of opportunities.
Two of my children have been directly & adversely affected.

I need to renew my British passport but qualify for a Republic Of Ireland passport so am thinking that is a better option.

Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 16th December 2020, 2:20 PM

I need to renew my British passport but qualify for a Republic Of Ireland passport so am thinking that is a better option.

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Worth looking into.
My youngest was born in France I think when he's 18 he has the opportunity of choosing French citizenship. Not sure how Brexit will affect that.

Brendan O'Carroll has signed a new BBC contract this month which also guarantees any specials he makes will be broadcast in the coveted timeslot of 10pm on 25 December until at least 2026.

What a shame we won't be able to watch it here.Oh!dear,how sad,never mind.

As Christmas Day approaches and you have fun, do spare a thought for those who are sad and lonely and not enjoying the festive spirit. Do find someone who is unhappy, alone, and not feeling Christmas. Talk to the fellow, and tell him to f**k off out of it. Say, F**k off and f**k you and stop being so f**king selfish and spoiling all the f**king fun for everyone else you f**king f**ker, I mean ffs, you got 364 f**king other f**king days to moan, groan, gripe, whine and whinge, don't f**k with the only cool day left, you dickrash, make a f**king effort for f**king once. F**k you. Really. No joke coming. F**k you.